the Jews bismillah alhamdulillah Salam
alaikum peace be unto you thank you for
tuning in to another episode of the Deen
so Dean show today the topic we're going
to be discussing Jesus please be upon
him or Muhammad if you had to take a
choice who would you pick would you pick
the mighty messenger Jesus or Muhammad
but in Islam which simply means to
surrender to the will of the one God we
pick both and that's what we will be
discussing here on the Dean show today
we make it simple we make it very simple
we accept all the messengers and Jesus
peace be upon him is one of the
mightiest messengers of God and the last
and final symptom messengers sent to
mankind a part of Muhammad peace be upon
him in to discuss more of this here on
the Deen show today is dr. Gerald Dirk's
former Christian Deacon preacher
graduated from the prestigious Harvard
University we'll be right back with more
here on the detail
this is the thesis betangel this is the
thing
Salam alaikum peace be with you dr.
Gerald Dirk's how are you hum the little
I am fine and peace be upon you brother
how have you been since the last time
you visit us here at the studio ah you
know praise God thanks be to God
everything has been going well yeah for
some of the audience that you know you
have your own section there didn't show
calmed I can go and kind of read your
biography to get to know a little bit
about you we've done several shows a few
in the past they can go there and also
watch your story but just to bring some
people up to speed can you tell us in a
minute just a little bit about yourself
well I did my undergraduate work at
Harvard and the way you received my
Master of Divinity at Harvard as well
and then went on from there and received
my masters and doctorate and clinical
psychology from the University of Denver
yeah so we like to consider you I know
your humbleness is one of the teachings
of Islam that we need to be humble but
you know you know the Bible quite well
many will consider you a Bible scholar
and we are talking to you on this very
important topic now we know that God
Almighty throughout time has sent
messengers and it is for the human being
after the messenger has delivered an
extensive amount of proof that he is a
messenger and has come with that same
message that's something weird you know
with one messenger God tells you to
you know worship the Sun another one the
moon then one contradicts all these but
the consistent message has been the same
well there's two points on the message
boys remain the same one is that there
is one God and one God only and only
that one got us to be worse that's been
saying the second message is there will
be a day of accountability so they all
warned and taught about this so these
two things right yeah now in Islam we
have this concept of progressive
revelation yes so that the revelation
originally given to Prophet Adam may be
somewhat different than that later given
to prophet Noah yes
which in turn might be somewhat
different from that later given to
Prophet Abraham prophet Moses prophet
Jesus Prophet Muhammad peace be upon
them all
this is not that in any way shape or
form God has changed his mind
yeah but rather that the revelation is
being pasted according to the spiritual
development of humanity or to that of a
particular group of people now some
people will deny Jesus peace be upon you
and some people will go ahead and deny
Mohammed some people try to put them two
up against each other where do we stand
well you know back in grade school we
used to have these multiple choice tests
yeah you know it's a as be at sea it's
none of the above it's all of the above
in Islam it's all of the above all of
the above we accept all of the prophets
and messengers of God that we recognize
them all equally
yeah now what's the unique thing about
Islam that and how would you if someone
came to you and they they they approach
you and they say okay well Jesus you
know he was he did all these miracles
and wonders and he proved that he was a
prophet how could someone be sure that
Muhammad peace be upon him was a
Messenger of God well I think the place
we started to read the Quran read the
Quran reread a good English translation
of the Quran and there's several aspects
when can take care in reading the Quran
one is one can look at the common ground
that is to be found between the message
and the Quran and much of the spiritual
and ethical teaching that's to be found
in the Bible again messengers of the
same God the second aspect though is to
look at the Quran and say you know how
could this have been known by a seventh
century Arab whom we are told by all
accounts was illiterate yeah you know
there there's too much knowledge here
now are there some references in the
Bible that referred to us another
prophet coming after Jesus oh sure there
are there references we look at the New
Testament there's references to prophets
after Jesus and the New Testament and
the book of Acts various people are
called prophets
we are told that you know people came up
to John the Baptist and they said to him
are you Elijah returned are you the
Messiah are you the Prophet yet to come
yeah you know so there are references in
the Bible to the additional profits now
how would you refute someone who says
you know what these references are
talking about the Holy Spirit not actual
prophet coming you know well again if
you read the New Testament - the Holy
Spirit was already present
he was already present sure yeah so that
that squashes that argument yeah the
Holy Spirit was already present during
the earthly Ministry of Jesus the Holy
Spirit was birth why do you think some
people have a hard time accepting that
there can be another messenger or there
is another messenger that came after
Jesus peace be upon because I mean it's
apparent I mean that right now if you
wanted to follow Jesus peace be upon
life to a tee you couldn't do it because
is it true you the Bible scholar tell us
that you know you know this book well
that we don't have the original
teachings of Jesus everything we have of
I was I went courting Bar Arum from one
of his books reading mr. corny Jesus he
said and this is you know who he is we
don't have a copy of a copy of a copy of
a copy of anything original is it true
well we certainly don't have anything
original yeah and if you look you know
you know many Christians are familiar
with what's called a red letter edition
yes of the Bible where the supposed
words of Jesus are printed in red you
know maybe a lot of that was actually
said by Jesus yeah maybe some of it
wasn't
the bottom line is we really don't know
you know we don't have provenance yes
for the sayings of Jesus that is really
sound and and takes us back but it's is
this coincidence that this man Muhammad
peace be upon him who didn't call people
to worship himself who you know was
calling people to the same message of
Jesus worship one God also what you
talked about the day of judgment the
Hereafter and his life is more
authentically recorded than any person
in history is this true certainly
recorded in detail they're far
surpassing that that we have of any of
the prior profits of no I mean if you
wanted to follow Abraham to a Teague
yeah
can you do it I mean from A to Z the way
you can probably well I mean you can
construct our attempt to construct a
biography of Prophet Abraham and in fact
I yeah but written the book on it
by combining judeo-christian and Islamic
sources but the dated a sort of detail
that we have about Prophet Mohammed in
his life no we don't have that on others
before we go to break so is there anyone
from your studies that there that you
have a person's mort of his detail
accounts of his life then problem Hamid
peace be upon not in terms of any of the
prophets no sir no prophet Mohammed is
is unique in terms of having that level
of detail recorded about its historical
life okay let's take a break and we'll
be right back with more here on the D
show you say that you do not believe in
Jesus you have stepped outside of his
name you cannot be a Muslim is attending
our faith to believe in and love Jesus
Christ
I would say this thing that you're just
told thing it's not in the scripture and
they would say a marginal note added by
scribe yeah okay we know that and I'd be
thinking if you know this is not the
Bible why are you preaching it as if
it's gospel truth back here with dr.
Gerald Dirk's discussing Jesus or
Mohammed we pick them both absolutely
now let's talk about their message let's
talk about the simplicity of the life
that Jesus peace be upon him live and
what he teaches preached and what he
called the people to maybe before we
even get to the message yeah there are
certain points I think we need to
highlight in terms of the commonality
that exists please talk between the
teachings about the life of Jesus peace
be upon him both in Christianity and in
Islam yes both religious proclaimed the
virgin birth of Jesus both of them both
we do this as Muslims we proclaim it but
for us the virgin birth is an act of
miraculous creation it's not an act of
divine beginning yes we both believe
that Jesus performed many miraculous
healings and cures all Muslims believe
this we believe that Jesus ascended into
heaven mm-hmm
we also believe that Jesus will return
yes there are numerous sayings of
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him that
says Jesus will return in the end times
will slay the Antichrist and establish
an earthly rule all of these things
being also talked about within
traditional Christianity but the message
that they both brought talked about the
message there are some beautiful
examples of and I'm going to just read
this to make sure I don't misquote
anything yes but let's take an example
this is from the New Testament from the
book of Matthew the sixth chapter verses
1 through 4 in which Jesus reportedly
is warning people to stay away from
false piety when it comes to charity and
let me just read the words beware of
practicing your piety before others
in order to be seen by them for then you
have no reward from your father in
heaven so whenever you give alms do not
sound a trumpet before you as the
hypocrites do in the synagogues and in
the streets so that they may be praised
by others truly I tell you they have
received their reward but when you give
alms do not let your left hand know what
your right hand is doing so that your
arms may be done in secret and your
father who sees in secret will reward
you that's from the 6th chapter of
Matthew now the Islamic parallels this
is from the Quran second chapter verse
264 oh you who believe canceled not your
charity by reminders of your generosity
or by injury like those who spend their
substance to be seen of men but believe
neither in God nor in the last day or
the saying of Prophet Muhammad peace be
upon him when God created the earth the
Angels asked if anything in God's
creation was stronger than wind and he
replied yes the son of Adam who gives
charity with his right hand while
concealing it from his left now that's
reported in termini same message though
we see Jesus reportedly preaching yes in
Matthew that we see in the Quran that we
see in the sayings of Prophet Muhammad
another example one that really stresses
what is often considered to be the
central part of Jesus's message among
Christians is the so-called golden rule
yes do unto others as you would have
them do unto you
in Islam we have a beautiful parallel in
a saying by Prophet Muhammad which is no
one believes
no one really believes unless he wants
for his brother what he wants for
himself yes you know very powerful
parallel messages that we find between
the reported words of Jesus and the
message of the Quran and the reported
sakes of Prophet Muhammad so if you look
back to the teachings of Moses whatever
is left or Abraham all these messengers
basically they were calling to the same
way the same ideas the same theology
everything they were brothers of one
another well certainly they were
brothers of one another and like I say
said before there are two aspects of the
the message that they all preached that
were the same yeah one god there's only
one only only that want us to be worship
yeah and we're all going to have to
account for ourselves and an eventual
day of judgment but certainly one
message and if we look back to Moses
there's a statement in the book of
Deuteronomy that is central to Judaism
it's called the Shema and it's here o
Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one
yes now this is key building block of
Judaism in the New Testament we have
someone coming up to Jesus and saying
you know master which is the greatest
commandment of all and we're told in the
New Testament that Jesus responds here o
Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one
yes you know certainly in Islam we have
the same message over and over in the
Quran there is only one God so when you
go from hearing this hero is where the
LORD thy God is one then again there is
only one God again I'm asking the
question I mean this is for me I mean
just a layman I'm thinking that this is
a great opportunity when Jesus is
approached to say that look I am God
three and one and I'm coming to die for
your sins you better accept this
otherwise you're gonna be in the
Hellfire and you're going to be
accountable in your salvation if you
don't is ruined but is there anything
clearer like this
in the Bible what you just said is clear
here is what
that is one and there's nothing after
that all right but I'm assuming the the
craters you know we can't even compare
our knowledge to his so why isn't there
or is there and I'm in my or are many
people missing something know the word
Trinity never appears in the Bible it's
not spelled out of the word never
appears never now there is one verse in
first job yeah
letter a first job that many Christians
quote to show there's a Trinity but this
verse appears only in the King James
Version
it's a verse that would we know from the
text we know it was added to a latin
manuscript in spain around the year 380
and from there spread to all the latin
manuscripts and even got into a few of
the greek manuscripts but this is a
later Edition and all Bible scholars
have any repute to acknowledge that this
is a later edition now did Jesus ever
say that look I'm coming to die for your
sins accept me as your Lord and Savior
that I'm gonna die on the cross clear
I'm just saying look mean you're gonna
make enter into a contract and you want
to get paid tomorrow I'm gonna do the
work we're gonna make it clear as
possible
so I'm thinking my salvation rests on
this so I'm just asking humbly a very
simple question did Jesus peace be upon
him ever explicitly say I'm gonna die in
the cross and I'm your God and put all
your sins on my back just believe in me
something like this give or take is
there anything like this humbly I'm
asking no no there's certainly nothing
that direct anywhere and in fact there
are passages which you know would say
that Jesus said if anything the opposite
for example well in the Gospel of John
were told in the 17th chapter that Jesus
is praying before his reported arrest
yes and in his prayer he says and I'm
quoting here from the New Revised
Standard Version of the Bible and this
is eternal life that they may know you
the only true God and Jesus Christ whom
you have sent
I glorified you on earth by here's the
keys are
finishing the work that you gave me to
do the work that Jesus was given to do
reportedly by his own words was finished
before he was even arrested before they
took him so obviously anything that
happened after this point in time let's
hope it was not part of anything that
God gave Jesus to do let's take a break
when we right back with more here on the
Deen show
I am Not Afraid to stand alone different
lines by my side I am not afraid to
stand
you
back here on the Dean show with dr.
Gerald Durst
left off where I asked the question did
Jesus peace be upon whoever explicitly
say or teach that he was coming to die
for the sins of the world you left off
where you quoted John 20:17 was it it
was Gospel of John and it was just
before his arrest our lives this is this
is life eternal that they may know you
the only true God so God the only true
God that's the one we were worshiping
yes and Jesus whom you have sent and
this would also clarify that he was sent
as a messenger just like Abraham was
sent Moses in the last and final
messenger and you say that the work is
done what was that last part okay i
glorified you on earth by finishing the
work that you gave me to do it's done
it's done it's finished yeah and this is
for those Christians who want to look
this up yeah you know this is a Gospel
according to John chapter 17
oh and really read verses 1 through 5
the key phrases in verse 4 so this is
chatter I'm sorry this is the Gospel of
John chapter 17 right verse 1 verses 1
through 5 to get the context yeah but
it's really in verse 4 that we see this
phrase I glorified you on earth by
finishing the work they gave me to do
now this is in the Revised Standard
Version new revised standard new revised
then what if someone says look I have a
King James Version look it up it's the
same thing well I don't have the King
James Version with you but you know the
thing to bear in mind the King James
Version at the time it was done it was
it was the best thing probably available
in English but when they made the
translation they went to rather late
Greek manuscripts yes and making their
translation they didn't go back to the
earliest manuscripts the New Revised
Standard Version basically the scholars
the translators have gone back to the
earliest manuscripts we have and made
their translation from that so it's a
more authentic in terms of its
provenance this one that your Cornelius
okay but it's still not an original
there is no original orig
no way the originals losta there's no
original no original okay okay we're
gonna leave off there no original we'll
be right back with more
iserlohn Dios
solo yeah na seuk lesson I would go to
my room lock the door go straight and
class ain't God you know me better than
myself show me the right way and I will
not look to how we leave everything
behind a lot of that greater and he
creates everything gives intelligence to
people Mohammed is one of the lessons in
distance with God back here on the Dean
show with dr. Gerald Dirk's we only have
a couple more minutes left for those now
we've explained the similarities and you
talked about how their message was the
same Jesus and Mohammed so for the
person who's listening it like what you
had to say some closing comments and
suggestions for this topic Jesus and
Mohammed having to choose between one or
the other
what do we say all of the above all of
the above all of the above which is both
we choose both Jesus and Muhammad as
well as the prophets that came before
Jesus John the Baptist you know Adam
Noah Abraham Isaac Ishmael you know
Jacob Joseph all the prophets said by
God or prophecy
Islam acknowledges now we're told that
we don't know the names of all of the
prophets yeah that got us sad but
certainly those that we have the names
for we acknowledge and accept that
includes most of the prophets of the
Bible we love them all yeah absolutely
we don't have to wrestle with this
trying to put one against the other
create division amongst oh no no in fact
the Quran tells us you know don't don't
try and create hierarchical orders among
among the prophets yeah that's not for
you yes as humans to do yes okay well
tell us now how could someone people if
they want to get a hold of you some of
your books best way to do that well if
they're interested in the common ground
between Islam and Christianity and the
common message taught by prophet
muhammad and prophet Jesus peace be upon
them one of my books details in great
lengths these common passages from the
Bible and the Quran
and that's called the Abrahamic faiths
Judaism Christianity in Islam they can
get that or any of my other books as
well as contact me you're available for
public lectures and oh yeah dialogues
sure okay and your information is all
there yes all with that website peace be
unto you thank you for being with us
thank you brother thank you
and thank you for tuning in to another
episode of the Deen show you got to hear
it Jesus or Muhammad all of the above we
accept all the messengers of God they
all call to the same way that way of
acquiring peace by submitting your will
to the owner of peace the one God doing
what the Creator wants you to do on his
terms not your desires and then you have
that pleasant beautiful reward of his
paradise and that's where we're all
striving for it to be the best human
beings that we can be in this life
according to God's will and then we get
his wonderful reward in the next life
and we'll see you next time here on the
D show until then peace be unto you