the dean show salam alaikum peace be
with you thank you for tuning in to the
dean show I'm Eddie your host and
sometime back we had a special guest all
of our guests are special but this was a
unique individual who came on and shared
his story and it's really spread all
over the world many people got to
benefit from it it's about a a gentleman
our brother Dr Gerald Dirks who finished
at the Harvard Divinity School and then
his journey on how he came to Islam so
we want to check in with him to see how
he's been how's his life been going
since then and we're going to be back
with him here on the dean show so sit
tight don't go nowhere it comes to you
the truth and the attribute of the one
who created you that he's one and alone
running this universe that he doesn't
become born he doesn't die he doesn't
eat then go to the bathroom this is not
God you got problems here it doesn't
make sense who was Jesus worshiping
because it's recorded in the gospels
despite all of the other issues about
the gospels we put those aside we just
say it's mentioned there that Jesus
worship
God asalam alikum peace be with
youum Dr Gerald dur how you been oh
praise God I've been fine it's good to
have you here on the dean show again H
good to be back now uh about a year ago
around this time you were with us and we
were very delighted to have you come on
and share your experience your your
journey to Islam which Islam simply
means to acquire peace to by submitting
to the one God to the will of God and so
many people we're we're on so many we're
on a few satellite channels now and not
only do we broadcast here in Chicago on
the local TV station but now thank God
we're on several different satellite
channels so so many people have gotten
to hear and benefit from your story so
if you can just kind of recap uh for
those who didn't get to to hear your
interview you can go to theen show.com
but just kind of bring us up to speed
and and the rest of the people of how
you in short you know end up making this
turn towards Islam and then we're going
to come back to atypical
Christian okay well um you know I I
started out U as an undergraduate at
Harvard and then went into the Harvard
Divinity School for three years during
my master of divinity and I was in fact
an ordained minister in the UN United
Methodist Church yes uh at the level of
Deacon but upon entering
Seminary especially a good Seminary one
is exposed to a lot of information that
the average Christian Layman is is never
going to be exposed to and uh that
information has to do with the
reliability of the biblical texts
alternate versions of the texts that are
out there
Etc and uh changes that we know have
been made made in the text uh sometimes
even knowing when and where those
changes were made and why they were made
so a person comes through this
experience and uh it shakes where one
thought they were going it shakes the
foundation upon which they thought they
were
standing uh and so as a matter of fact
upon my graduation from Seminary even
though I was now an an ordained minister
I was what I call
an atypical Christian atypical Christian
one word atypical now Define that they
heard me say it but now you said it
again what does that mean atypical CHR
well for me an atypical atypical being
one word Christian was what I was I
didn't believe in the Divinity of Jesus
Christ peace be upon him I didn't
believe in the concept of a trinity uh
but I certainly did believe that there
was one and only one God so that's what
I would Define as as being an atypical
Christian did you ever speak in tongues
no
no some people would would make this as
a proof that you know Christianity I I
yeah so what do what do you think about
this just to get off the topic for a
second like if somebody mentions this
someone sent me an email they said well
this might be a proof that Christianity
is a truth because you got people you
know it's a phenomenon people speaking
in tongues by the power of
God well they're they're speaking
something something but uh I have yet to
hear of anyone tape recording uh a
session and and uh qualified linguists
looking at it and saying oh I recognize
that language yeah um as far as I know
it's always uh
unrecognizable
so whatever okay so anyways so let's go
back now so you became an atypical
Christian so even before Seminary School
you were preaching teaching the Bible
yes yeah and now you went to Seminary
School you were exposed to textual
criticism textual criticism form G to
form criticism yeah early uh early
church history yeah Etc and you went
deep into this and then I remember
you're saying in in our last interview
that you were listening to some of the
preachers preach and teach some of the
things that you knew they weren't in the
Bible well yeah I I knew they weren't um
legitimate things to be being taught
give us an example of that
oh I I can recall one one Minister one
Sunday morning um who was uh basically
doing a give me money sermon yeah give
me money sermon yeah you know give the
donate money to the Church sermon uh
where or basically he began to uh really
stretch uh some uh biblical Concepts
about giving yeah so tell us now you
became an atypical Christian and you
believed in one God like many people
they believe in one God they don't
believe in the confusion that's out
there a lot of these
man-made uh things and you were kind of
stuck up on for a while just being away
from Islam and everything else so how
was your life then at that moment when
you were just atypical Christian well
you know my wife and I tried to live our
lives what we believe to be a moral and
ethical way yeah um you know every now
and then I i' go to church because I
thought it was an important family thing
to do wasn't something I did very often
and like I say I often you know ended up
gritting my teeth at what I was hearing
yeah uh being
said
um but you know I I continued to
praym uh did a lot of praying directly
to God oh absolutely not to any Prophets
Saint or no to God to the god to God um
you know I continued studying I would
frequent the local Seminary bookstore
and see what they had in ETC uh and read
up on some of the later uh the latest um
archaeological finds Etc so now you're
an AP typical Christian now you came to
accepting Islam how did that happen
again well that started primarily by
having contact with some Muslims in the
Denver Colorado area Yeah by observing
their lives and and finally uh you
recognizing they were living their lives
in very moral and ethical by um quite at
variance with the society around them U
and and asking myself okay you know
where where are these people drawing
their religious strength from yeah and
so um I began to read English
translation of Quran began to read books
on Islam by Western
authors um and the more I read the more
uh I ended up saying to myself well you
know there's nothing here with which I
disagree yeah you know this is basically
what I believe now some people get hung
up on the Arabic and you having to now
you know dress a certain way and you
know do certain things that maybe you
aren't accustomed to so did you have did
you become an Arab now because you
became Muslim no absolutely not and in
fact you know this is nonsense what
you're saying um you know as far as
dress code goes Islam prescribes that
you dress modestly yeah and and there
are some specific requirements in terms
of that and terms of for for a male
anyway you know things going down at
least to the knee and at least above the
the naval but uh there there's no
prescription that says you wear a thob
and a
kofy uh or U you know a sari or or any
other nonwestern clothing MH you know
certainly wear your own western clothing
just
modest clothing so you're still an
American oh absolutely yeah so you don't
have to give up now you don't become a
Pakistani or you don't become a Arab
absolutely not absolutely not you just
become one who submitted to the will of
God sure sure that makes a lot of sense
we're going to take a break and we'll
right back with more here on the dean
show death and the day of judgment the
mercy of Allah these are the things that
finally made me realize there is no time
to delay anymore I want you to take my
shahada right there is the essence of
spirituality is to become more sincere
to Allah contemp that itself it is very
very scary but it brings you back to
reality there is a life which is
Everlasting in the Hereafter and you
have to make a conscious decision of
which group of people do you want to be
of the people of heaven or the people of
Hell back here on the dean show with Dr
Gerald Dirks and people can go to theen
show.com to see your full story on how
you came to Islam now we really want to
encourage people to read the verbatim
word of God the Quran yes and before we
go into that and dwell upon that you
were reading the Bible and you were
finding that was there Islam in the
Bible was it calling you to acquire
peace by submitting to the one God and
this is what led you finally to Islam
was it was it reading the Bible did that
help whatsoever oh absolutely it helped
absolutely reading the Bible help and I
think anyone who reads the Bible with an
open
mind uh and reads it aresh and other
words don't read the
Bible but through the lens of what you
were taught in Sunday school this is
important now read the Bible aresh what
does it actually say yeah this is the
key now with the Quran many people think
that okay it's the same thing you got
multiple versions of the Quran like you
do of the B how many versions of the
Bible do you have
actually well usually when we say
versions what we're really talking about
is different translations
um the difference however is that when
we talk about different translations of
the Bible the different translators go
back to different sources or different
manuscripts King James version of the
Bible goes back to fairly late Greek
sources I mean it's it's not very old
something like the new Revis Standard
Version of the Bible goes back to very
early uh textual sources uh to derive
its translation now having said that it
is the case that there are different
Bibles different Bibles yes so would
that be like in one Bible you have one
verse taken out and another one put in
or some things in one Bible like the
like you have whole books whole books
out so wouldn't that constitute a
different version well yeah but usually
I can say when people say different
versions of the Bible they're really
talking about different translations but
in in reality the uh if we look just at
the Old Testament yeah the Protestant
Old Testament does not have all of the
information in it that the Roman
Catholic Old Testament has yeah which in
turn does not have everything that's
found in the Greek Orthodox Old
Testament yes and you look at something
like the uh Ethiopian Orthodox church
and they have a radically different Old
Testament than than the other three same
things to be found in terms of the New
Testament uh now the Protestants the
Roman Catholics and the Greek Orthodox
all agree on 27 books of the New
Testament but you look at other
Christian groups such as as the East
Syrian or noorian Orthodox Church they
have a 22 book New Testament they take
five of the books and say no no we don't
accept these the Coptic Christian Church
includes first and second Clement in
their new testament which are not found
in in the other Bibles and again you go
to the Ethiopian
Orthodox uh New Testament and and you
find some wildly different books the
bottom line is Christianity has never
ever agreed read on what constitutes the
Bible is it true that we don't have a
copy of a copy of a copy of anything
original well we don't have anything
original nothing original no there's
nothing original what we we have are
typically much later copies and you know
people sometimes say well you know
there's you know p-52 or you know
whatever and you know that's very early
date maybe 120 130
150 um but you know something like p52
is a little fragment mhm contains like
five verses maybe or something you know
so so we don't
have and this is different with the
Quran we do have we we have still
existent copies of the Quran that was
made under khif hman written Quran yeah
and this was made within you know a
score of years the original of of
prophet Muhammad yeah he be upon it so
is that what helped you finally also to
realize that you know what this is a
book that is not man-made but is
divinely sent C certainly the provenance
of the Quran is much better than the
provenance of of most of the Bible yeah
but it goes beyond provenance historical
provenance it goes to content uhhuh and
when we look at the content of the Quran
you know it clears up some things that
are confusions yes in the Bible for
example for example let's take the story
of Prophet Joseph yeah you know we're
told in both the Bible and the Quran
that Prophet Joseph had a vision in
which the Sun and the Moon and and 11
Stars bowed down to
him and in both the Quran and and the uh
Bible we basically have the same
interpretation that you know his father
and mother and and the 11 Brothers will
bow down to him at some point in his
life yeah now the only time this could
have happened was after Joseph was sold
into slavery in Egypt by his brothers
and later Rose to become the viser of
Egypt and his brothers and father you
know moved to Egypt now the thing is in
the Bible we're told that Joseph's
mother died giving birth to her shortly
after the birth of Benjamin the youngest
boy she would have been long dead and
buried long before Joseph uh was even
sold into slavery much less Rose to be
the viser of Egypt there was no way
according to the Bible she could have
ever bowed down to him in the Quran
however we're told that Joseph's parents
girl came to Egypt we don't have the
story of uh Joseph's mother dying yes
giving birth to Benjamin we want to
encourage people to read the verbatim
word of God the Quran this is what you
did and you realize that this is indeed
from the creator of the heavens and
earth is not made by men multiple men or
the prophet Muhammad peace be upon them
so now someone might say you know what
this you claim is from the Creator but
it's in Arabic the original is in Arabic
so how can I benefit I'm an English
speaking person well you you first of
all you have to get a good English
translation okay and let me emphasize
that a good English translation because
there are some translations out there
that are not good okay that are in fact
misleading and you want to get one
that's easy to read and there is one
that has just recently come out by uh
brother Yahya emmerick who's an American
and a Muslim uh who has translated the
Quran into modern American English yeah
and this is important thou thus none of
that yeah no no you not thee thou thine
uh this is important because most
translations of the Quran that you look
at have been translated in sort of a
King James English yeah to make it sound
like the King James
Bible most Americans are not familiar
with King James English and this is true
whether it's the second and third
generation of Muslims in America
or whether it's non-muslims picking up a
translation of the Quran most of them
are not familiar with King James English
they have difficulty reading it they
have difficulty understanding it and
they need something in straightforward
modern American English and that's what
Yahya 's translation gives us but it
gives us much more now I'm holding up
the extended Study Edition yeah of the
Quran so this has commentary and
everything this includes s uh chapter
entry uctions it includes historical
context in a different font you have the
historical context in which the
following verses were revealed this is
sometimes very important in getting the
proper understanding of what the verses
are saying so you have the historical
context but you also have commentary
almost 2,700 footnotes worth of
commentary sometimes discussing
Linguistics why something was translated
a certain way sometimes giving a saying
of the Prophet Muhammad that help
explains the text uh sometimes uh
providing other information that
provides a context to help understand
the text so the meaning of the Holy
Quran in today's English extended Study
Edition by Brother Yahya emmer this is
certainly what every English-speaking
Muslim should be reading also oh
absolutely um for non-muslims
either get this one or there is another
one same author called a journey through
the Holy Quran that doesn't include all
the commentary footnotes yes but uh
provides you with all the rest of the
information um either one and these are
available by the way at
Amazon.com or at uh ifna as if
n.net uh which is brother Yahya Emmer's
website let's take a break and we'll be
right back with more here on the dean
show
I would go to my room lock the door
prostrate and cry saying God you know me
better than myself show me the right way
and I will not look back I will leave
everything
behind Allah is our creator and he
creates everything and he gives
intelligence to
people mam peace be upon Muhammad is one
of the last Messengers and from
God
back here on the dean show and this is
what we're really trying to encourage
people to do what you did you were
open-minded humble hearted you had a
connection with your Creator and you
wanted to do his will now you got a hold
of also this Quran the verbatim word of
God and you read and we want to
encourage people to read one of the
beautiful miracles of it isn't it that
it's memorized by millions all over the
world and today you don't have different
books of the Quran it's just the one
Quran yeah there there's different
translations obviously uh and the Quran
has been translated into language after
language after language but when we
really talk about the Quran we're
talking about the Arabic original yeah
and yes that's the same there is only
one version of the Arabic now you're as
American as they get I think so so now
an American who's watching and he sees
you you went to the top university one
of the top in the world Harvard
University you got your Divinity degree
you were a Christian preaching teaching
the Bible eating Thanksgiving dinner and
you from a small town and everybody
knows you they love you and now they
relate they they agree look I don't want
to worship Jesus I love Jesus we love
Jesus too but we say he's not God never
did he claim that he was God this
Trinity is confusing my mind is getting
a little numb thinking about it it's one
God and you proved in all of the
different lectures that this was the
teaching of all the messengers so they
like what we have to say accountability
that no one's dying for my sins I'm
going to have to be accountable in front
of God so I got to do good I got to
raise for but they you know this whole
thing now the identity the culture is is
how did you get past it with difficulty
yes with difficulty you know because
what one does have an identity uh one
has a national cultural identity in my
case being an American uh one also has a
religious identity which originally in
my case was that of being a Christian
yes even though I was an atypical
Christian that was still the sort of uh
cloak of identity that I carried around
with me in terms of my religious
identity and it's a difficult thing to
change identity yeah it is a very
difficult thing um the thing that's
important I would tell non-muslim
Americans who are watching we call them
the not yet Muslims okay alhamdulillah
that's very good praise God
um you're not giving up your National
cultural identity you're still Muslims
you're still going to dress in western
clothing you don't have to change your
name you don't have to take an Arabic
name and by the way that's what it is
it's an Arabic name not a Muslim name
you don't have to make these changes you
don't have to sit around eating b briani
or or you could still you I mean even
though you might have to go to MC Clinic
you can still eat
McDonald's uh well if it's Hal
McDonald's depends where you draw the
line yeah okay yeah but sure there are
certain dietary restrictions you know we
we don't eat pork we don't consume
alcohol yeah um um but uh you know aside
from things like that you keep your
American National cultural identity only
change that religious identity that's
simple yeah that's and you're doing it
for the Creator the one who loves you
who created you who's the most loving
yes yes definitely okay how could people
get a hold of you if they wanted to
invite you they love you had to say to
their University to a platform where you
can speak in front of thousands they can
contact me at my website we started with
peace we end with peace thank you very
much much PE peace be to you brother
thank you very much and thank you again
for tuning in to the dean show Islam
which simply means to acquire peace by
submitting your will to the one God it
is growing it's the fastest growing way
of life in the world today yesterday and
tomorrow and you can learn more about
Islam here in the dean show continue to
tune in every week you can also call us
if you have any further questions and
you'll like to know more 1800 662 Islam
and until next time we'll see you peace
be unto
you