[Music]
you can't deal with these people there's
no need to try there's no need to talk
to
them I
think Israel is have to take over Al
Muhammad who's one of the UFC fighters
had on his Instagram most Jewish people
don't live in
Israel many Jewish people always opposed
Israel many Jewish people rejected
Zionism
really there's only one way like I would
carpet bomb them you would carpet bom
them it's the only it's the only way you
could deal with it some of the videos
that you sent me of soldiers shooting at
people that are not doing anything right
we need to kill
[Laughter]
harab this is the dean
show asalam greetings of Peace welcome
to the dean show I'm Eddie your host and
my next guest Abby Martin is an American
journalist TV presenter and activist
she's also the director of Gaza fights
for Freedom now before we bring her on
let's go ahead and get into her
documentary and then we'll bring our
special guest on And subscribe right now
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enjoy the rest of this show Salam alikum
and don't forget to support us on our
patreon page and this is Abby Martin the
director of Gaza fights for Freedom how
are you Abby I'm doing great how are you
it's really an honor to have you on the
dean show thank you for being with us so
tell us uh you are someone who is really
taken to this topic here of Israel and
Palestine how did you get involved in
this yeah I think it really just comes
uh in conjunction with kind of an
awareness about the war on terror and US
imperialism and looking at the world
through the lens of us Empire um back
when 9911 happened which is kind of my
Awakening point I remember that the US
political establishment and the media
actually first directed our attention to
Palestinians um and um I'll never forget
that propag that was out there to
conflate Palestinians with terrorists
and then of course Israeli officials
were paraded around our media saying now
you can embark on your own war on terror
using Israel as the blueprint um so
really since that day um kind of my my
larger awareness was awakened about
Palestine and of course just meeting
Palestinians um getting to know people
who were affected directly by what's
going on I mean this genocide that's
subsidized by my tax
dollars so what's the difference explain
to us you have the mainstream media CNN
Fox News NBC
ABC that type of media and where we get
our headlines where we get much of the
news and then the type of Journalism
that you do yeah there's there's two
Waring Waring media uh you know
Industries here um one is the
corporate-owned US media essentially
this is an apparatus that acts as an
extension and an arm of the Pentagon um
basically it tells us who our friends
and foes are and it's all always
basically uh demonized Palestine it's
always pedal the Zionist line um you can
see that this is very apparent when you
look at someone like Jeffrey Goldberg
who's the editor-in chief of the
Atlantic who was actually a former IDF
prison guard and then you could look at
something that's supposed to be this
impartial newswire that's then
editorialized by these Publications
something like AP and Reuters when you
had a woman who was just a member of a
Palestinian students Justice
organization at her college and she was
fired
from AP for simply being a member of
this organization and mind you this was
after the AP building was directly
demolished by Israel uh for no reason at
all so War crime upon War crime it
doesn't matter these agencies will bend
to the will of the Zionist line and of
course the us Empire's line because it
all fits together uh then you have the
Independent Media apparatus um that is
independently funded um Grassroots donor
funded places like Empire files places
I'm sure like the Dean show um and we
try to tell the perspective of of
victims I mean of these atrocities
around the world we try to uplift the
voices of the people who are ignored um
who are you know basically just swept
under the rug when it comes to these
horrific policies that are being
perpetrated in our name now before we go
deeper into the subject a lot of times
this label gets thrown out anti-semitic
anti-Semitism I want to bring on a
Israeli friend of mine uh you might know
him also uh he's also Israeli Jew and
he's doing some great work so I'm going
to bring him on real quickly a video
clip and then get your reaction to this
term anti-semitic
anti-Semitism then another claim that is
often made and I'm sure you hear this a
lot is that criticizing is the state of
Israel or criticizing Zionism is
anti-Semitic so if you criticize Israel
You're anti-Semitic which means you're
racist now this is a very strange claim
for several reasons first of all most
Jewish people don't live in
Israel many Jewish people always opposed
Israel many Jewish people rejected
Zionism so are they also
anti-semitic what about those Jewish
people that's number one number
two so opposing Israel is anti-Semitic
and racist in fact they're saying this
more and more
today so what does it mean when you
support Israel is there a name for
that because if we support Israel we
support a
state that has thousands of political
prisoners if we support Israel we
support a state that has laws that
discriminate against the
non-jews if we support Israel we support
a state that gives less water to
Palestinians because they're not
Jewish if we support Israel we support a
state that on a regular basis as a
policy kills civilians Palestinian
civilians not by mistake not as
collateral damage but as a
policy so opposing all of that is
anti-Semitic and supporting all of that
is
okay how does that even make sense how
is supporting all of that okay this is
supposed to help the
Jews this is supposed to help
anyone so it's very threatening for
people to criticize Israel for many
people because they don't want to be
called anti-semitic but on the other
hand the whole claim that it's
anti-semitic is completely
absurd because criticizing Israel is the
right thing to do criticizing any racist
regime is the right thing to do
regardless if they're Jewish or Muslim
or Christian or anything else your
comments on this term anti Semitic moo
is a good friend of mine I I really
rever him um and he really has broken it
down very lucidly and he did this
recently on an Empire files podcast that
we did together where he talked about
how
anti-Semitism is in the same broader
ideology of white supremacism and
Zionism they are all hateful ideologies
that are founded and premised on the
otherization right on dehumanization of
another people to actually call a state
government that is committing horrific
atrocities that is imprisoning 1.2
million people in an open air prison
that is perpetuating an illegal
occupation illegally annexing land
expelling people killing people
imprisoning people torturing people
employing an apartheid state two sets of
laws uh for Palestinians and Jews that
is anti-Semitic to criticize a
government I mean how is it is
islamophobic to criticize Saudi Arabia
for executing prisoners or I'm sorry for
executing political protesters who are
trying to just protest their government
of course not so why is it called
anti-semitic to Simply criticize a
government that is engaged in absolutely
atrocious policies in our name this is a
tactic this is a tactic that has been
used and weaponized against anti-racists
against progressives against people who
really are um unly opposed to these
policies and that is why it has worked
so well because of course people who are
criticizing Israel don't want to be
called anti-semitic of course this is
part why this is such a third rail issue
why it is so taboo because you don't
want to be labeled an anti-semite you
don't want to be smeared and slandered
and have your career destroyed because
you're simply criticizing a government
um so this has been a tactic used by
Israel this has been long employed and
deployed and has actually worked quite
efficiently um but I don't think it's
working anymore I don't think that the
narrative has been able to be um held um
in that way because for the last 20
years specifically Israel has gone on
the offense invading countries bombing
Gaza relentlessly this is an open air
prison where caged people are
continuously bombed all the things uh
like Ahad to Mimi all of these moments
that have happened and then especially
the great March of return I think really
has has exposed osed Israel as the
occupier as the Violator of Human Rights
they can no longer claim that they are
on the defense and that they are somehow
protecting themselves from you know
rabid anti-semites who want to destroy
them it's all this hypothetical nonsense
that's used to essentially justify their
horrific acts um and for the longest
time progressives have been scared to go
out front and center and say these
things because they are afraid of this
label but again I mean
it's time to flip this narrative on its
head and say you are a defender of
apartheid you are a defender of war
crimes so now you have to defend that
you can't now come at us and say oh why
do you criticize Israel are you
anti-semitic no no no no no you are the
apologist you are the defender of AP
partite and now you need to be put on
the defense about why you do that and so
once we get that narrative going which I
feel like it it it already is I feel
like aparte Israel is um facing the
beginning of the end of their regime and
it's part and parcel because of now
Independent Media Palestinians being
able to film their reality with their
own eyes and Israel no longer having
control of the narrative anymore you
know it's interesting my my guest that I
brought on a couple weeks ago who was
also from the area there by Gaza uh when
I brought this term up he said they
don't use that with us because it's
interesting Palestinians are also
semetic they speak a semetic language
they practice a semetic religion Islam
submission to the Creator not the
creation so it's like to to them they
say it's funny you know what I mean and
they can't get away with it but they
only push this uh to the American public
who's ignorant of some of these things
yeah it's a trick we always use it when
from Europe somebody is criticizing
Israel then we bring up the Holocaust
when in this country people are
criticizing Israel then there are
anti-semitic exactly that's why you have
uh that's why you have all these Israeli
officials speaking English um T Bennett
and Netanyahu they're very important
figures because they are speaking to us
this is a propaganda campaign to
manufacture consent with the American
public specifically Hebrews the national
language of Israel these people are
paraded around our media specifically to
speak to us and to put this narrative
out there and it's quite fascinating
once you realize that I want to get into
another clip you were in I believe it's
called you actually went down there you
went down to this area in Palestine you
went to you visited What's called the
toan square is that correct yeah in
Jerusalem yeah so let's get into this
clip and get your reaction to some of
the reactions that you got
disease not think that that the Islam is
a it's a very bad
disease not not just for Israel for uh
all around the world we can see it they
think they they all have to be Islam if
you're not Islam they will kill you it's
against the Jews should the marry
Arabs because Jews is a special nation
that God gave it to the Jews and we
don't want Jews to get mixed up with
together with a different Nation I
think Israel is have to take over and
the they have to kick them uh kick them
away it will be much better
not not to kill them just
to to go back to to Arab countries you
can't deal with these people there's no
need to try there's no need to talk to
them what we can do is when that they
they do enough harm we retaliate that's
war and that's the situation that any
Jew lives in Israel has to deal with
I think also that um every Arab that
doing a terrorism attack uh we have to
kill him and not because he's an Arab
because he's a terrorist I think you
should uh also kick out the family
because it's all begins with the how you
saying
education whatever they teach the kids
the kids does you know it's families I
miss I think that we need
to I think we should give them a country
if you're doing any problem you just
going there to give them a country then
it's going to be a war between countries
you know if they going to throw Rockets
we're going to throw one big one and
done I don't think there's any answer to
it really there's only one way like I
would carpet bomb them you would carpet
bomb it's the only it's the only way you
could deal with it like or or try to
stop them a different way it it never
worked makeig and we need to kill
harab what does it mean for our audience
some people have never heard this term
to carpet bomb them what does that
actually mean it means to basically
liquidate an entire area um of Civilian
infrastructure and housing so with just
wanting um bombing campaigns that have
no regard for human life at all which is
pretty much exactly what we're seeing
the IDF um employ Hiroshima nakasaki
yeah yeah that that I mean that I mean
that's that's a of course a nuclear
Holocaust but I mean you saw right there
an Israeli citizen or an Israeli settler
basically advocating that he said once
we give them a state we can just drop
one giant bomb AKA and nuclear bomb and
just destroy the entire area you know I
was pretty floored when I went into this
this region within 48 and talked just
randomly to average Israelis on the
street I mean these were Americans these
were settlers these were people from all
walks of life not cherry-picked at all
and I think it really just shows you
even though it's anecdotal I think it
really is reflected in polling that this
represents the mainstream current of
Israeli Society you have a young girl
laughing gleefully actually saying kill
all Arabs it's very triggering but this
is what people think gleefully endorsing
genocide to an American documentarian I
mean if this is what people will say on
camera what are they saying and
advocating for behind closed doors um it
was very very disturbing to hear these
interviews because all we hear you know
as Americans living in this country this
is completely sanitized from us we hear
about Israel being a democracy we hear
about human rights you know we hear
about Israeli Society trying to push
someone like Netanyahu or Bennett I mean
that those are aberration and outliers
that they don't represent the mainstream
of Israeli Society but in fact they do
they absolutely do they are an outgrowth
of where Israeli Society is that it's
increasingly fascistic and right-wing
and actually genocide is a mainstream
current this is reflected all across
Israeli society and it's very scary I
mean we just saw we're seeing what's
unfolding in shik J right now which is
um you know tens of thousands of people
marching through the old city destroying
Muslim homes businesses chanting death
to a
[Music]
[Applause]
their memory uh to be a leftist in
Israel is a slur um to be a leftist
basically means that you just want more
Humane occupation it doesn't mean that
you're anti-zionist so you know mo has
laid this out really well about the
composition of the knesset and how
tokenized the couple Arab seats are but
really the vast majority of political
parties and the vast majority of people
in general are Zionist they're
unabashedly so and they believe in the
Jewish supremacist state which basically
is predicated and premised on the
continuous expulsion of indigenous
peoples and that is uh genocide because
basically what it's trying to do is
erase their entire
culture you talked about how this is um
I mean this is known Jimmy Carter's
talked about American president anybody
who's actually gone down there taking
the time to really you know visit the
area they talk about it being an open
air prism uh they talk about mik pillet
brings this to light and many uh Jews
actually you have doc Dr Gata Holocaust
Survivor many Who come out and it's not
about being Muslim Jew Chris is about
just a human you know if you have like
yourself I mean just the humanness comes
out and you see these atrocities babies
just being blown up you know and like
they were saying this carpet bombing
that happens you know indiscriminate
it's just you know if you have a heart
if you're human this just it just
awakens you to want to speak out and you
have good people speaking out like
yourself so um tell us uh when you
visited Gaza so you talk about counting
calories refug refugees that are not
allowed to leave like what does that
mean they counting
calories yeah I mean this is this is
basically when we say this is an open
air prison it really is true because
people are not allowed to leave this
area it is a 25 by5 mile strip of land
that's essentially been uh cordoned off
by Israeli authorities alongside the
Egyptian Military which acts in
compliance with Israel you need a permit
to leave you need a permit to get
medical treatment that you can't get
within the territory so for comparison
if you get breast cancer just 10 miles
away in 48 so in Israel you have a 75%
chance of survival if you are diagnosed
with the same cancer within the Gaza
territory you have a 30% chance of
survival that's the disparity that we're
talking about we're talking about no
clean water um the vast majority of
diseases within Gaza are because of
diseased water um that's not sanitized
because they continue to bomb their
water salination plants food uh this was
a policy that was written up explicitly
in Israeli uh government documents that
said that they wanted to count calories
so essentially just provide just amount
just the the minimum amount of food to
get into Gaza so that there wouldn't be
malnutrition so to keep people just on
the cusp of being able to survive um
electricity they only have two to three
hours of electricity a day this seems
like oh you could surv that way it's
very hard I mean um think about freezing
meat you know think about keeping food
cold uh electricity is as important as
the air we breathe as someone who was in
our documentary says I mean he says it's
humiliating right the fact that they
need to worry every night about their
children lighting the house on fire
because they have to use candles when we
were getting the footage for this
documentary and now I was banned for
life from actually entering Gaza I was
in the West Bank for a month and I tried
to get into Gaza I had all the proper
press credential and paperwork filled
out and I was told by the Press Ministry
that I was an Iranian spy and a
propagandist and that I was banned for
life from entering the territory which
was devastating so I actually worked
with six journalists on the ground to
direct the interviews to get the footage
that you see in Gaza fights for Freedom
which people can check out for free on
our YouTube channel and also go to Gaza
fights freedom.com but in this movie
it's really an accurate uh depiction of
what this great March of return was
because what it reveals and of course of
course people are going to be protesting
and and resisting right that that are
living in this besieged Enclave um that
are essentially continuously tortured by
the Israeli government and punished
collectively that that's the key is they
are collectively punished but the great
March of return was so such an
incredible event because what it showed
is what the Israeli government will do
to Peaceful Marchers because we always
hear this conflation of Hamas shooting
rockets and oh they have the right to
defend themselves which they don't of
course but this instance 207 2018 2019
the great March of returned where where
thousands of people were going with bar
chests to this artificial border fence
that partitions them from their
ancestral lands standing there with
flags and they were mowed down by
Israeli snipers 200 of them peacefully
marching and this wasn't just people
this wasn't just men of military age
this was children directly targeted by
Israeli snipers this was Medics
administering medic Aid this was
journalists killed targeted and people
who were disabled these are all
violations of the Geneva Convention even
if this was a war between
armies these would be war crimes so what
this movie is really what what our
intent was behind the movie was to
really kind of push the needle to hold
Israel accountable in front of an
international war crimes tribunal um
because that's exactly where they need
to go uh people are seeing this is this
actually
something that people are wearing what
does this represent that is one shot two
kills this was a t-shirt that was issued
by members of the Israeli apartheid
Defense Forces um and this shows a
pregnant woman um and they say one shot
two kills because this is how much
they've dehumanized and devalued
Palestinian life um they actually are
advocating to kill a pregnant woman to
take out the unborn baby um this was not
a one-off this was something that was
circulated throughout the Israeli
military
um in Gaza fights for Freedom you can
see um that Israeli snipers were
actually filming themselves kill
children who pose no threat to them at
all and laughing cheering this is how
much this is kind of how sadistic this
mentality is I mean when you are part of
Israeli Society I mean just like that
guy said in the clip he said it starts
with the education yeah it does it
starts from birth the segregation the
education taught to hate
dehumanize the people that you're
ethnically cleansing you have to you
have to otherwise how could you how
could you Embrace such a Nazi like
mentality as wearing that shirt I mean
that's where we're at you know America
is a very racist Society because of the
remnants of slavery and genocide of the
indigenous population that happened
hundreds of years ago right but we still
have racist institutions that are
remnants of this disturbing past well
Israel's colonizing now they're openly
colonizing another people killing
expelling these people so of course can
you imagine how prevalent racism
is it's part and parcel with Zionism
Zionism is racism colonialism is racism
this is happening now so people really
need to wrap their minds around the fact
that this is this is their reality every
single day and it's very disturbing I
mean where else in the world is is
anything like this happening but because
of this cover of impunity that's given
to them by the US Empire they can
continue to do it with no consequences
at all let's get into our final clip and
your reaction and then we'll go ahead
and close it up balal Muhammad who's one
of the UFC fighters head on his
Instagram and uh I texted you that
it's
we it's so again this is another thing
it's so difficult to understand what's
actually going on there's so many
pro-israel people that put their head in
the sand and don't want to look at some
of these atrocities and don't want to
look at some of the videos that sent me
of soldiers shooting at people that are
not doing anything right last time when
you talked about this one of my email
accounts was flooded with literally a
chain letter like the same letter like
denouncing you and your lies and your
anti-semitic perspective and your
anti-israeli
perspective it was it was weird because
it was the same email astroturfed
yeah uh let's start with that term many
people don't know uh what this term
astroturfing is can you explain that to
us yeah so what Joe Rogan received
because he basically received the brunt
end of the Israeli Lobby campaign so
astroturfing
basically appears that something is
organic and Grassroots so in this case
it was Israeli Lobby forces namely the
organization stand with us which is an
extension and appendage of the Israeli
government um this is why you see Barry
Weiss out there trying to debunk me
wherever I go on platforms that are big
enough like Joe Rogan she'll go on and
try to you know debunk my claims um
she's received money from stand with us
and the Israeli government but this
letter campaign that was sent in Mass to
Joe Rogan pretended that it that it was
from just hundreds of different people
that were outraged at my appearance but
really what it was was a stock letter
that was sent out um essentially being
astroturfed um in that way and I think
this is really revealing
because they were so threatened by me
going on such a large platform talking
about Palestine that they needed to pull
out all their cards right to they also
produced a video labeling me an
anti-semite trying to debunk my claims
but what they did was just make
themselves look ridiculous because they
basically just deny the existence of the
occupation they ignore everything going
on in Gaza and they just talk about how
Israel is a democracy right um and they
ignore all of these atrocities that are
happening outside their borders but the
Joe Rogan Experience was really such a
shocking one because it showed you how
threatening how threatened they are and
and to what extent they will go they
actually tried to Lobby Joe to have an
Israeli government official come on and
debunk me luckily he didn't do that and
I'm glad he talked about this on the on
the show because it shows you what
they'll do you know they won't let these
claims stand they won't let people who
are going out there and countering the
narrative they won't just let it happen
without trying to put the hammer down
hard and in my case that's exactly what
they did so Joe Rogan I mean he was
talking about how you were sending him
some of these clips and he was
acknowledging um many of what's much of
what's going on he mentioned B Muhammad
UFC fighter um seeing some things that
he's posted so he's pretty well educated
on it and you did that program and
people are so happy to see you on that
program educating you know his audience
do you think uh you'll be back on again
anytime soon I think that we'll find out
in the coming weeks if I'm gonna come
back on um but Joe is really really a
great guy um he's a friend of mine he
really cares about the issue every time
I've come on in the last couple years
he's let me just have the floor to talk
about this and you know hundreds of
people if not thousands of people have
told me that they have found out about
Palestine that they have changed their
mind about the conflict from listening
to my appearances on Joe Rogan and that
really it means a lot um because people
criticize him a lot for not having
enough leftwing voices on and sure that
that might be a valid critique but the
fact that he's let me have the floor to
to criticize Israel on such an enormous
platform I think speaks volumes about
his integrity and his willingness to
stand up against this um and he said
himself on the program he said that's
Nazi Germany that's Nazi Germany when
you have T-shirts being printed that
says one shot to kills targeting a
pregnant woman when you see video
footage of Israeli soldiers happily
executing children for doing nothing um
what else can you call that that's the
mentality that we're fighting against
and I appreciate um you know everything
that you do for shedding a light on this
and hopefully public Consciousness can
be you know I I feel like it's really on
fire right now and the latest assault on
Gaza was really you know I think a
turning point I think that we've reached
a line in the sand that um people know
that this is a partti we have Human
Rights Watch which is notorious kind of
both siding and offis skating the issue
we have members sitting members of
Congress who have been notoriously bad
on this issue before of course Congress
is the body that that allows all this to
happen that subsidizes Israel apart dead
but when you have several sitting
members declaring that this is a parthe
and all of these World bodies declaring
that this is a partide when you have the
international criminal court announcing
that they are going to investigate war
crimes in these territories that's a
line that we can't draw back from now
now everyone agrees this is a partie so
now it's what can we do about it how do
we fight it how do we defeat it um and I
think that's a huge huge thing a shift
in the Overton window that is now um we
can't go back from that we can't
backpedal from that term so now it's a
matter of how can we make a parthe fall
and that's exactly where we need to be
and again putting people on the defense
of why are they defending parthe why do
they defend these atrocities please uh
let uh Joe give a hello from me
uh he actually wore one of my t-shirt
you know I teach martial arts also he
had the my team shirt rovic Jiu-Jitsu he
wore it one time on his show so amazing
that was cool from him all right so we
showed the video on you on the streets
we just showed Clips so what's that
called so people can actually get the
full version of that video what's that
called titled so people if they want to
see that's everyday Israelis Express
genocide to Abby Martin I highly
encourage you to check out the whole
video it's on our YouTube playlist on
Empire files so subscribe to us on
YouTube and then you can check out our
entire playlist reporting from Palestine
we have about a dozen or so videos that
are extremely revealing um from all
across the West Bank Gaza interviews
with Israeli dissidents interviews with
Palestinians that speak for themselves
and then of course our our feature
length documentary Gaza fights for
Freedom about the great March of return
Gaza fights for Freedom that's your
newest documentary you directed it right
yes so people everybody if they want to
know about this what's going on there
they should watch this documentary
politician chrans people of influence
everyone should watch this documentary
and that's on your channel yes it is and
you can go to Gaza fights forf
freedom.com to to watch it in Arabic
subtitles as well God bless you you're a
brave soul uh thank you so much it was
really an honor to have you on thank you
so much it was an honor to be on