do you want to know what
Makow then everybody watch Dean
show alhamdulillah peace be unto you
very very exciting show today a very
very important topic was America founded
as a Christian Nation some people might
have you believe that it was in
actuality it wasn't and we're going to
be talking to a Christian scholar from
the Harvard Divinity School Dr Gerald
Dirks when we come back here on the dean
show don't go
nowhere
Allah there's only one God and muhamad
is his
M
Allah there's only one God and Jesus was
his messenger of
I don't know why I did that maybe maybe
it's just to break the iceam peace be
with you and peace with you brother I
greet you with the greetings of Jesus
Moses and the last and final messenger
sent to mankind of proam peace be upon
him and all of them all of them yes and
they all greeted with this this greeting
peace yeah it's in the Bible isn't it oh
yes yes in fact that you know we look at
the Jews they still say shalom shalom uh
which is peace yeah and we say Salam
which is peace which derives its in
Islam and that's what we're striving for
to have peace with our crater peace with
ourselves and peace with Humanity
correct and that's why we're here doing
this program because sharing is caring
absolutely and we're trying to share and
there are is a lot of misinformation so
unless we sit with people of knowledge
such as yourself we're not going to
learn so the million-dollar question now
was America actually founded as a
Christian State no it's not but but
before we get into that let me go back
to your your introduction a little bit
ago I took my master's degree in
Divinity from Harvard Divinity School I
am not affiliated with Harvard Divinity
School at at the current
time no uh the United States was not
founded as a Christian Nation and we can
demonstrate this in several different
ways first of all we can look at the
religious beliefs of uh the majority uh
common folk of America at the time of
this country's founding secondly we can
look at the religious beliefs of the
found ing fathers of America thirdly we
can look at U official documents of the
various States and of the United States
in particular but let's start with the
religious beliefs of the American public
at large at the time this country was
founded now those people who would say
America was founded as a Christian
Nation would have you believe you know
that there was a great majority of
Christians in this country at the
beginning in fact fact if we look during
the colonial period the most
optimistic estimates are that only 15%
that's 15
15% of the majority white
population had membership in a Christian
Church only only 15% 15% during the
colonial period we can break it down
more
specifically in New England about 15%
had membership in a Christian Church in
the Middle Colonies that fell down to um
around 7% and in the South that
percentage was even lower yes now bear
in mind that we're talking only about
church membership of the majority white
population if we include in our
population figures African-American and
African
slaves and American Indians at that time
period those percentage of would go down
even further MH because those are only
for the white majority adult population
at that
time so what what was the typical belief
system what was it yes okay basically it
was a primitive animism it was a mixture
of superstition and sort of primitive
magical beliefs in which people
practiced and believed in
divination uh Thea sear stones and
divining rods uh Fortune telling
palmistry
astrology uh incantations and spells a
great deal of belief in terms of spirits
who hid Treasures of various mountains
and hills and guarded them and you
needed all sorts of magical incantations
to locate the treasure Etc so it it was
a privative form of uh animism basically
and Superstition that was common among
the majority population now among the
intellectual Elite we run into something
very different among the intellectual
Elite we confront
deism now deism was a religious belief
that grew out of the European
Enlightenment uh they believe that there
was an
impersonal Creator God who basically
established a rational
universe and then left it hands off it
from that point yeah so yeah one God but
a God that was totally impersonal and
didn't
interact with creation ises that figure
it out on your own figure it out on your
own this is illogical this doesn't make
sense yeah so there's an impersonal God
they typically believe that there was
life after death um and rewards and
punishments would be distributed
according to one's deeds and works on
Earth um certainly they denied the
Trinity they denied the Divinity of
Jesus uh uh and usually they denied any
any Revelation from God and what point
was this about in history what well
again this was very popular movement
among the intellectual Elite from the
time of the European Enlightenment on
into the early 19th century here in
America okay so you're at a you said 15%
and the rest are believing these beliefs
either primitive animism that' be the
majority of of the common folk and among
the intellectual Elite uh deism was uh
flourishing
um and we can see that particularly in
terms of of uh the founding fathers of
America because by and large they they
were representing the intellectual
Elite you know in our last presidential
election one of the candidates made a
comment yeah and said you know I I don't
think I could have vote for anyone for
president who wasn't a Christian yes
it's interesting to note for whom this
person would not have voted tell us
because none
none of our first seven
presidents belong to a church upon
becoming president of this country none
of them the first seven none of the
first seven and none of the first six
were Orthodox Christians so let's so the
first seven what starting with George
Washington George Washington was a deist
was a de he was a deest he wasn't a
Christian no he denied the resurrection
and Divinity of Jesus George Washington
that's first president yes and people
can check this up and verify oh yeah
yeah now the second one no let's stick
with Washington to show you how far it
goes us now Washington's wife did go to
church she she was a Christian and
Washington being a good husband would
occasionally accompany his wife to
church yeah but we have reported in in
the history that when they started to do
Holy Communion or the Eucharist as it's
called in the Christian worship service
Washington would get up from his Pew and
walk out of the church he walk out walk
out and wait for his wife outside this
is recorded document yes he he refused
to participate in it yeah yeah so that's
George Washington let's let's look at
our second President John Adams yes John
Adams was an early Unitarian he denied
the Trinity he denied the Divinity of
Jesus that's the same that thing that we
as Muslims do yeah now he unfortunately
went further and he denied that there
was such a thing as Eternal
damnation uh he denied the concept of
original sin uh and he denied the
concept of vicarious atonement for sin
yeah so I mean this is hardly an
Orthodox Christian he sounds more like
tune with what Islam is about absolutely
there might have to be some some extion
of that Eternal yeah with the exception
absolutely absolutely and in fact Adams
had some rather um negative comments to
make about American Bible societies and
and let me read a quote to you please
tell us from from
Adams
um and and I'm quoting word for word
here this is from a letter he wrote to
Steven Su in May on May 30th 1821 second
president president of the United States
second president of the United States
Bible societies have been invented by
deeper politicians still to divert
Mankind from the study and pursuit of
their natural
rights I wish societies were formed in
India China and turkey to send us grus
translations of their sacred
books there's a second president of the
United States wow saying you know I wish
those Muslims over there in Turkey would
send us some free translations of the
Quran the second President of the United
States now someone's like hold up hold
up this guy just making this stuff up
what do you got to say about that what
you well you you can check it out
there's a book that I would recommend
people get if they question this it's
called Faith of Our Fathers religion and
the new nation published by Harper and
row in 1987 is by es uh Gad so the
information is there yes in the
okay let's take a break there and we're
going to be back with more here with Dr
Gerald Dirks right
back coming to the truth requires two
things it requires deep thinking that
you've already done but it requires
another step and that's courage if you
have the truth but you don't have
courage you won't stand up for the truth
and that's as good as standing up for
falsehood I I would say this thing that
you just told me it's not in the
scripture and they would say a marginal
note added by a scribe yeah okay we know
that and i' would be thinking if you
know this is not the Bible why are you
preaching it as if it's gospel
[Music]
truth I am not afraid to stand
alone I am not afraid to stand alone if
Lies by I am not afraid to stand
alone I am not afraid to stand alone if
I Lies by my side I am not afraid to
stand
[Music]
Al I am not afid stand
alone I am not
[Music]
AF millions of innocent men women and
children since the introduction of
Christianity have been burned tortured
fined and imp imprisoned yet we have not
Advanced one inch toward uniformity what
has been the effect of coercion to make
one half of the world fools and the
other half Hypocrites Thomas Jefferson
Founding Father during almost 15
centuries has the legal establishment of
Christianity been on trial what has been
its fruits more or less in all places
pride and indolence in the clergy
ignorance and cility in the leoty in
both Superstition bigotry and
persecution James Madison I have found
Christian dogma unintelligible early in
life I absentee myself from Christian
assemblies ligh houses are more helpful
than churches Benjamin Franklin the
government of the United States of
America is not in any sense founded on
the Christian religion John Adams
whenever we read the obscene Stories the
voluptuous debaucheries the cruel and
torturous executions the unrelenting
vindictiveness with which more than half
the Bible is filled it would be more
consistent that we called it the word of
a demon than we call it the word of God
it is a history of wickedness that is
served to corrupt and brutalize
Mankind back here on the dean show we
love our brothers in humanity and we
care that's why we share and we're
reaching out to all of the people all
around the globe and one of the myths is
that America was founded as a Christian
State and that is a myth absolutely it's
a myth and and it's a total myth yeah
and you we left off with uh presidents
of the United States and you mentioned
six or seven of them uh let's continue
on we left off uh we talked about George
Washington and John Adams and and we can
turn to Thomas Jefferson but but before
we go to Thomas Jefferson you left off
it's interesting that the quote he was
saying that they should send us some
Quran something like that what was he
say well the word for word is uh he was
saying I wish societies were formed in
India China and turkey to send us grus
translations of their sacred books well
turkey that's Muslims that would be the
Quran that and the Quran is the verbatim
word of God yes you should read the
Quran take advice from the second
President of the United States continue
more please okay well let's turn to the
third president Thomas Jefferson Thomas
Jefferson Jefferson again was a deist he
was not a Christian in fact he had some
really anti-christian comments to make
the third President of the third
president for example he called the
Trinity a and I'm quoting here Hocus
Pocus fantasm of a god this is the
president of the United States and then
went on to call the Trinity mere
Abracadabra these are the words of
Thomas Jeffers you didn't say it I
didn't say no no this jeon this is what
Jefferson said and then he compared the
Believers in the Trinity to mentally ill
patients in bedum Thomas Jefferson
former president of the United States
third president of the United States
yeah okay continue on fourth president
anyone else you know Jefferson uh
referred to the Book of Revelation the
last book of the Bible and uh again I'm
quoting directly from Thomas Jefferson
he's saying uh it was quote merely the
ravings of a Maniac no more worthy nor
capable of explanation than the
incoherencies of her own nightly dreams
what has no meaning admits no
explanation yeah so you know Jefferson
Not only was not a Christian he was
actually anti-christian yeah as we can
see from um comments that I'm going to
stress this that he made that we as
Muslims are not making but Thomas
Jefferson third president of the United
States made in his own personal attacks
against Christianity so Jefferson a
deist yeah Washington was a deist Adams
was an early Unitarian James Madison
fourth president once again a
deist um Benjamin Franklin one of our
founding fathers a deist Thomas Payne
who wrote The Common Sense the pamphlet
that probably you know provoked American
Independence was a deist Ethan Allen was
a deist John Quincy Adams our sixth
president of the United States who was a
Unitarian who
refused most people are going to be
shocked by this refused to take his oath
of office on a Bible insisting instead
that he place his hand on a book of US
law wow
so these These are amazing facts that
many people don't know about yeah but
they're all recorded they're all out
there um America was not founded as a
Christian Nation period period we we can
look at uh some early State and and
constitutions and Declarations of Rights
Etc um now there was there was great
variation among the 13 original uh
colonies and states in terms of their
specific state constitutions
but it's interesting to note that out of
the original 13 there was only one that
uh established
Christianity uh as a state religion and
that was South Carolina and then they
were establishing only Protestant
Christianity uh as a state
religion but on the flip side many of
the early state
constitutions banned Christian ministers
from holding political
office so Delaware it's constitutions of
1776 and
1792 Georgia in 1777 and again in 1789
and
1798 Kentucky in 1792 New York in
1777 North Carolina in
1776 South Carolina in 1778 even though
they established Protestant Christianity
as the state religion Tennessee in 1796
and Virginia in 1786 all banned
Christian ministers from holding
political office not founded on the
Christian State just to make a go on a
tangent for a second we as ones who have
submitted to the one God the same way
Jesus Moses and Abraham all the message
they submitted to the one God that's all
we're trying to do we're not Antichrist
no no no no and and again you know the
the comments that were made by Jefferson
made by Adams those are those their
comments you know I quoted them but
they're not my comments yes they're
Jefferson's comments they're Adam's
comments because we can't be Muslims
unless we love Jesus Christ peace be
upon us absolutely absolutely and and as
Muslims we do not
attack other religions as well you know
the Quran in the second chapter has this
wonderful statement about freedom of
religion yeah where it says let there be
no compulsion in religion yes
period and it also says doesn't a God
Almighty say that bring forth your
evidence if you're claiming the the
truth so if you say something now we're
saying hold on this is not true if
you're saying that America which we love
we live in it and respect we're
law-abiding citizens and we share and we
care and now if you're saying that it
was founded on a Christian Nation we're
saying hold on it's not the case and
we're bringing forth the evidence to
prove it sure yeah and we can look at
the official documents of the United
States of America as well um you know
read the Declaration of Independence
there's not one mention of Jesus Christ
in the Declaration of Independence
anywhere this doesn't sound like a
Christian Nation read the
Constitution
um there's no mention of Jesus Christ or
even of God in the constitution in the
Declaration of Independence when there
is a reference to God it's usually in
the impersonal terms of the deists you
know Nature's God quote unquote uh their
creator quote unquote Supreme judge of
the world quote unquote these were
catchphrase phrases of the deists MH and
these are the terms that we see
appearing in the Declaration of
Independence uh continue on tell us more
please this is very very enlightening
and interesting well in terms of the
Constitution as I mentioned there
there's no reference to God whatsoever
yeah in the Constitution but uh how
about the Pledge of Allegiance well
Pledge of Allegiance is much much later
how much later much much later we're not
talking about the founding of the
country when we're talking about the
Pledge of Allegiance the Constitution
tells us you know that the constitution
is the supreme law of the land as well
as laws that are passed by Congress and
official treaties which the United
States has entered into and with that in
mind there's one treaty in particular
that we need to look at which one is
that which is the 1797 Treaty of
Tripoli now this treaty was drafted when
George Washington was still
president it was unanimously approved by
the United States Senate now when's the
last time the United States Senate was
unanimous about anything yeah but this
treaty was unanimously approved by the
United States Senate and was signed by
President John Adams our second
president now what makes this treaty so
special in terms of our present
discussion is the 11th
article and again let me just read it
verbatim article 11 and as the
government of the United States of
America is not in any sense founded on
the Christian
religion as it has in itself no
character of enmity against the laws
religion or Tranquility of Muslim men
Muslims and as said States never entered
into any way or act of hostility against
Any mohamedan Nation it is declared by
the parties that no pretext arises from
religious opinions shall ever produce an
interruption of the harmony existing
between the two countries this was uh
Tripoli what today we would call Morocco
and the United States the Treaty of
1797 direct statement as the government
of the United States of America is not
in any sense founded on the Christian
religion now this was an official Treaty
of the United States this was the law of
the land yeah according to the
Constitution right here that it was not
found as a Christian Nation furthermore
drafted under Washington unanimously
approved by the United States Senate
there wasn't one
senator who voted against this because
of this article not one not one it was
unanimous why do people push this idea
it's an attempt to rewrite history you
know it's an attempt to rewrite history
people focus on things like the pilgrims
Coming to America or Catholics Coming to
America in the middle colonies Etc
Quakers coming to Pennsylvania Etc and
they say well you know this was
established as a Christian Nation yeah
what they fail to realize is that in
almost all of these cases these
Christian groups that were coming to
America were fleeing from religious
persecution in Europe yeah and who is
persecuting them in Europe who other
Christians other Christians were
persecuting sure and so they were
fleeing to the to America they wanted to
distance yeah Muslims weren't
persecuting no no it wasn't Muslims uh
it was other Christians were persecuting
and so even those who were Christians
wanted to make sure that you were not
setting up any kind of a theocracy in
this country they wanted that great
division between church and state but
isn't it known through history this is
another topic of itself that Muslims
Jews and Christians when Muslims ruled
they were living in peace ABS well in
most places yes you know and and Muslim
Andalusia would be the shining example
of that that's amazing where could
people get a hold of you if they want to
invite you to come and give a a big
lecture on this topic or any other
topics uh they can contact me in my
website which is Dirks onlinebooks
that's all one word Dirks online
books.com and that's Dirks D K thank you
so much may God Almighty the Creator
reward you for being with us thank you
so much and we got to clear another
misconception another myth out there and
all it took was for you to tune in the
dean show and continue tuning in to
learn more about this beautiful way of
life and other important facts from
history today and time and other things
that will Enlighten you brighten you and
maybe even cause you to come and to join
the family of over 1.5 billion across
the world if you like to read the
verbatim word of God to learn more of
Islam di the number on the screen 1800
66 to Islam and we hope to see you again
next time here on the dean show we
started with peace we end with peace
peace peace be unto you
Salam he created the
universe to him belong the heavens and
the
Earth the ever living He is the
first he's the owner of Mercy
he sent his
Messengers to all his
creatures of the great
dangers of
worshiping than
Allah there is none
greater than the Creator
[Music]
all