this is the dean the dean show this is
the dean
show alhamdulillah Alum peace be with
you welcome to the dean show thank you
for tuning in I'm Edie your host and we
got back in the studio with us today Dr
Lawrence Brown let me tell you a little
bit about Dr Lawrence Brown he is a
Doctor by profession former US Air Force
Major some would say he's a Christian
scholar he's got some knowledge of the
Bible some knowledge of Christianity he
went from being an atheist tried very
hard to be a Christian didn't fit it
didn't work and he became a Muslim he
consciously chose to submit not to a man
to woman but the creator of man and
woman the one God and he's still
following the teachings of
Jesus how is that we're going to be
talking about this on this week's show
so don't go nowhere be right back this
is the dean the
de this is
the is the
[Music]
the
the this is the
the
the this is
the this is the
[Music]
the
the is theam alum peace be with you Dr
Brown how are
you now what did you say you said
something in Arabic what's going on here
can you translate it for English for our
not yet Muslim audience we will come
back to this later in the show I expect
inshallah okay I'm going to hold you to
that okay you
have peace be upon you
and the the the mercy of Allah
Allah and the blessings of now you have
a
DD doctor in Divinity you have a PhD in
religious studies and people can go to
theen show.com to hear your conversion
story how you accepted Islam now when I
opened the show I said because you
accepted Islam that complete total
submission and surrender acquiring Peace
by submitting yourself to the owner
peace the one God the same way of life
that was lived by all the messengers of
God including Jesus and I said you still
follow many of the teachings that Jesus
followed yeah am I lying was I telling a
lie but you're a Muslim how does this
work no well this is the point and I
frequently get into this discussion with
Christians where I just point out to
them I say okay you say you a Christian
fine okay well look first of all you
know as Muslims everybody is allowed to
choose their own religion okay if you
want want to be Christian that's fine if
I want to be Muslim that's my choice you
know uh everybody everybody has the
right to choose their own religion and
we should live in the spirit of mutual
tolerance of that choice okay um however
in the spirit of interfaith uh dialogue
uh when when we do get into this
discussion what I like to point out is
when somebody calls themselves Christian
this means this means that they consider
themselves to be a follower of Jesus
Christ
right so so we're going to set that
straight so a Christian is supposed to
be someone who is following the
teachings of Jesus Christ well what does
Christian mean what why don't you define
that take us give us a little bit of a
history lesson just in this word
Christian where it stems from the Hebrew
coming along to the English can you just
briefly what does this word actually
mean the well if you look in the Bible
you you follow the excuse me if you look
in the Bible you find the first
reference to
Christian uh it was it was said 42 years
after the time of uh of Jesus's mission
at Antioch and it was actually it was
considered to be a derogatory term it
was not a polite term it it was like H
you want to be you want me to be a a
Christian you know sort of in this
spirit so it was considered a derogatory
term uh however with rather typical
Christian humility and I mean that in a
good way not a bad way but in typical
Christian humility they adopted the term
and and kept it uh to to basically
identify their group now we have to
remember that the original followers of
Jesus Christ were Jews they were Jews
they considered themselves Jews for many
generations and they were proud to be
considered Jews it was only later that
the the division between the Jews who
followed the teachings of Jesus and and
the Jews who did not follow the
teachings of Jesus this divide became
wide enough that historically they
started to become identified by a
different term originally they started
to started to be called Christian Jews
by historians until uh basically they
split to being called Christians period
did Jesus call himself a Christian no
never did he ever hear this word
Christian no Christianity no and you
have to remember you know the if if you
look in the Bible the the word Christian
is it's only found three times
and it none of these occurrences
occurred during the lifetime of Jesus
Christ but it it it did not exist
Christian is found three times
Christianity is found nowhere in the
Bible you don't find it anywhere and and
it stems of course from Christ but you
have to remember Jesus Christ was not
walking around saying Christ okay okay
what what you know the the word that was
uh you know translated to be Christ was
basically you know Messiah what you know
how the uh in in Hebrew it was the word
for messiah and it was translated to to
uh to Christos in in uh Greek and then
from the coin Greek
and it was anglicized to Christ um but
the key here is we have to remember that
that was not an exclusive term uhhuh if
if you look if you look in the Old
Testament you find this the this word
for messiah this word for Christ applied
to many different
individuals uh it was it was it was
applied 30 times to the davidic Kings it
was applied six times to the um to the
high priest and it was applied twice to
the Patriarchs of the Old Testament and
so you had you had roughly 38 different
individuals or 38 different instances in
which other individuals were identified
with the same term translated to
Christ as Jesus Christ
so as Muslims we do not argue with the
fact that Jesus Christ was the Christ do
we believe he was the Messiah but we you
know we believe that he was a man he was
a prophet he he was you know he was a
prophet sent by God he brought a
revelation to the people to try to bring
them back from uh from the deviation
that had crept into their religion but
but but the point is I'm just I'm just
saying to set the record straight Jesus
was a common
name okay up until that time Jesus was a
common name and there were many other
indiv indviduals who were also
identified by the same term which is
translated to Christ it was he did not
have an exclusive on that term yeah and
also we believe he was the Messiah well
I mean he's identified as one of the
Messiah one of the Messiah yeah I mean
there are you know again as Muslims we
believe in a continuity in the chain of
Revelation there there were many
prophets bringing the word of God to
many different what is this word Mah
mean uh Messiah actually it means uh
anoint or or anointed yeah uh so uh
anybody who was anointed I you you find
the root of this word applied to uh to
non-living things things that were
things that were anointed yeah were
identified by the Same by the same root
word let let me bring us back now now
okay so so excuse me any individual any
individual who was
anointed was was identified as a messiah
let's go back to the original question
now okay so we know where this word
stems from Jesus never used it he never
knew of this word but today people call
themselves Christians so if you would
ask a Christian they say we're following
Christ but we say we're also following
Christ now when I opened the show I said
you're following Christ you we're trying
hard to be a Christian right but you're
not a Christian but you're following
Christ what does this mean well I think
this is the point the point is that uh
Christians believe by you know the by
the name of their religion that
themselves to be the followers of Christ
Muslims also believe themselves to be
the followers of Christ and and so you
have these two different religions both
of them saying we follow the teachings
of Jesus Christ the question is who
really is doing it who really is doing
it let's take a break and we'll be right
back with more here on the D show no
speech is better than to do to call
people to Allah and to do the work no
speech is better no nothing is better
than that is it true that if one person
and the Allah giving you the ability to
guide someone with Allah's permission
the Creator's permission that is better
than everything in this world better
than the whole world and everything
that's in it in in another narration
it's better than the best of wealth but
if we really felt that Eddie Would we
not be out giving da and this is
something that we encourage all the msas
all the da organizations the mus to get
this we want to print more we give these
to the non-muslims for free for free for
free we want our brothers in humanity to
our brothers in
fath I am not afid to stand
alone I am not afraid to stand alone if
Li by I am not afraid to stand
alone I am not afraid to stand alone if
a li by I am not afraid of stand alone
I am not afraid to stand alone Li I am
not afraid stand
alone back here on the dean show with Dr
Lawrence Brown thank you for being on
the show my pleasure it's always a
pleasure to have you always now we are
talking about Jesus peace be upon him
who is beloved to our hearts he's one of
the mightiest messengers of God believe
no muslim is a Muslim unless he believes
or she believes in Jesus so we're not
the
Antichrist you know some people would
say like these Muslims are the
Antichrist right of course and they
they're trying to project their dislike
for the religion and this is just an
excuse that they come come up with but
uh Islam the Islamic religion honors
Jesus Christ honors his mother Miriam
and and uh we we rever him for what he
was a man a prophet uh somebody who God
chose to convey Revelation to the
people
now someone make a strong argument and
say hold on hold on that we as Muslims
would you agree follow the teachings of
Jesus more than the Christians do
well okay some make that statement what
what I like to just throw out is for
people just to look at the evidence and
come to their own con inclusion so we
can say a talk is cheap but we can back
it up with
evidence look let's break it down go
ahead please break it down
um if you're talking with a Christian
it's just kind of natural to say okay
you're a Christian you say you're a
follower of Christ I'm a Muslim I say
I'm a follower of Christ let's let's
just compare some basic issues and see
who's really doing it okay um ask
anybody close their eyes and with their
eyes closed just conjure up an image of
what they conceived Jesus Christ to have
looked like hold on I'm doing that right
now Dr Brown I'm doing that right now
some people you know they have
African-American you know uh with black
eyes and and and and curly hair but
someone else is closing his eye they got
blonde hair in this church over here
blonde hair blueee and in another church
they got the Jesus you know Hispanic
looking which one is it well look
depends what church you're
at okay and and this is because a lot of
people people have turned the reality of
Jesus into a fantasy of Jesus but they
all but then one thing I want wait wait
wait they you know Ian they have they
have tried to sort of model him to be
closer to their heart's desire but my my
point is that no matter no matter how a
person sees them they I still see a
beard on them though that's right that's
right I see a beard like yours kind of
and like yours okay and and like we see
among some Christians but certainly not
the majority very few Christians wear a
beard
and very few wear a beard because they
are following the example of the Prophet
they might say they didn't have razors
back then okay but let's move on CU this
is kind of a superficial okay because
first of all yeah they did I mean there
were plenty of people who shaved all
right there were plenty of shave but he
had a beard but the point yeah I mean
the point the point was that if if we if
we think about it just from the very
sort of superficial aspect of what Jesus
Christ let's move along from there beard
cuz let's not get stuck on this point I
mean we know that Jesus Christ I mean he
wore a beard okay his his mother Mariam
if you conjure up an image of her you
always see her wearing a headscarf okay
walk into any church look at the stained
glass windows look at the paintings look
at the sculptures she's always covered
that's like the Muslim head scarf which
is more like what you encounter with the
Muslim uh headscarf than what you
encounter commonly with you know
Christians on the street okay in the
same way picture Jesus Christ standing
during the sermon of the mount or any
other time what do you see him wearing
he's wearing loose not formfitting
clothing a long robe to the wrist to the
ankles maybe tied at the waist by a rope
maybe not but it doesn't show his form
it it's a dress of modesty okay and
again where where do you see people
dressing with modesty more among the
Muslims or among the Christians many of
whom wear very revealing clothing M by
you know by yester Year's standard this
is like the Muslim th would you compare
it to it like the Muslim thob or the
Muslim even the Muslim Abaya for men
what they call the Abaya for men um and
uh but all all I'm saying is like for
example if you took the people of this
time and you transported them back a
hundred years in this country in America
and you walked them down Main Street
USA the Christians many of the
Christians the way they're addressing
now they would be AUST exercized by
their own people okay go go and look at
go and look at
movies that you know that that were uh
you know filmed about the people of this
time where they portray them in their
realistic clothing and you'll see the
women the women were dressed again you
know long flowing dresses you know to
their wrist to their ankles with head
head Bonnets and so on and so forth so
this is resembling more the Muslim now
again again we're talking about the fact
that the the Muslim
embodies the appearance okay the you
know the appearance of the woman the
headscarf the appearance of the dress
this this is all now kind of you know
superficial aspects of who Jesus was us
more give us more please you know now
let's go to let's go to something else
let's just go to how he carried himself
what he was about he was a man of
modesty he was a man of humility he was
a man of quality uh we when we think of
Jesus Christ we think of somebody who
spoke about salvation who reminded us of
religious values we don't think about
somebody who is constantly dealing with
worldly you know aspects of of our
existence uh again it's just been my
experience when you're in a a circle
with Muslims you find that the Muslims
are much more commonly talking about
religious issues and uh sort of bringing
any
conversation back
to uh back to this then then you find in
a common you know just in the sort of
common uh work Place chatter or whatever
uh among Christians more yeah okay now
now this is not a big point you know and
the big points are more to follow but so
you saying the Muslims now are are more
uh talking about the spiritual
development of the human being talking
about the prophets about the one God and
where over here you got more material
things that uh you know the people are
focusing on nightclubs dancing hooking
up with women things that Jesus never
talked about yeah look it's just you
know most Christians know that in
Christianity
most people in Christianity have made
the religion a pretty much a Sunday's
only religion yeah okay and Jesus this
is a 247 thing for him yeah exactly and
you know you find muslims praying five
times a day making Abol before before
prayer and how do you forget your
religion if you're making abolition
before your prayer praying five times a
day getting you know getting up uh you
know early morning for the first prayer
staying up you know in the night for the
last prayer and so I mean how do you
forget your religion your your religion
canot become a Sunday's only sort of
thing when you're doing it every day did
he do this make Evolution did he fall on
his face like we fall on our face and
pray okay now that's another step yeah
okay let's we've talked about appearance
all right we've talked about manners one
of the elements of manners let's look at
something that that Jesus Christ
actually told us to do all right he he
he told us to offer the greeting of
Peace he he instructed his disciples
that when they meet one another offer
the greeting of peace that was like we
did like we did in the beginning isn't
it that's that's what I'm that was
that's Luke 105 okay in Luke 105 he
instructed them but then he he actually
acted out the example four times in Luke
24:36 in John 209
2021 and
2026 okay so one time he gave them a
directive and then four times he
actually gave them the example of
offering the greeting of peace and
that's why I was saying in the beginning
we'll come back to this because you find
that practice among the Orthodox Jews
right you find that practice in the Old
Testament you find it in Genesis you
find it in numbers you find it in judges
you find it in 1 Samuel uh and so there
again there's an example where okay
we've talked about appearance now we've
talked about manners where the Muslims
always greet one another assalam Alum MH
you know peace be upon youkum Salam and
unto you be peace how many Christians do
you find following this very simple
itive mhm you might say oh this is a
small thing come on this is a little if
it's a little thing why don't you do it
mhm you know it's not like Jesus Christ
was telling you to move mountains yeah
he was just saying offer peace so why
don't you do it so these are some of the
details major minor but it seems like if
you're trying to fit the description of
who's following this these M major minor
it seems like the Muslims yeah but look
now this is minor and I know what
everybody out there is probably about
the major give us we're almost out of
time so tell us something major
something that really can rock you know
just rock somebody's mind practices of
worship tell me okay uh first of all
religious practices Jesus Christ was
circumcised Paul said it wasn't
necessary in Romans 4:11 uh Jesus Christ
didn't eat pork according to Old
Testament law Leviticus 11:7 and
Deuteronomy 14 this good Dr Brown tell
me some more uh Jesus Christ didn't
practice Usery either giving giving or
taking according to the law Exodus
2225 okay uh he did not have any contact
with females members of the opposite sex
he didn't shake hands he didn't touch
I'm not talking about having you know
relations I'm saying even the least
little contact okay that's that's those
are religious practices you know and in
keeping with the Old Testament law move
on to practices of worship he performed
avolution before praying as do all
Orthodox Jews Exodus
40:31 um he uh he prayed in prostration
the only description of Jesus Christ
praying in the Bible was in The Garden
of Gethsemane where he fell on his face
and prayer okay and if you look into the
Old Testament you find that Ezra Joshua
Abraham Moses Aaron they're all
described as praying in prostration so
this was not just his example this was
the example of all the prophecies he Pro
he fasted for more than a month at a
time and he made pilgrimage now okay who
makes evolution before PR before prayer
the Muslims the Muslims who who prays in
prostration the Muslims five times a day
the Muslims who fasts a month out of
every year the Muslims who makes
religious pilgrim AG once in their
lifetime required as a tenant of Faith
the Muslims is that the end of it no the
most important thing is Creed let let's
hold off we're going to take a break and
we're going to talk about the most
important thing as we wrap it up here on
the dean show'll be right back so if you
find yourself your IM man is going down
check
yourself there is none worthy to be
worshiped except Allah alone you got
some CD or some music in the the car
bobbing your head to 50 cents or no it's
common sense don't do things that can
hurt
people Lady Gaga goooo and all that
other
nonsense Bing is Haram backbiting
slandering and such substit as
smoking stay tuned 18in biceps we'll see
what happens to Eddie on the dean
showan and we holding it down on the
dean show early make sure y tune in back
here on the dean show with Dr Lawrence
Brown and everything is adding up that
it seems like the Muslims those who have
consciously submitted to the one God
because that's what a Muslim is MH seems
like we're following Jesus peace be upon
them more than many of the common day
Ordinary People today look we've talked
about appearance we've talked about
manners we've talked about religious
practices we've talked about practices
of worship but the most important thing
and the message that all prophets really
came to be bear was the the message of
Creed in other words you know the truth
of God yeah okay and so we've talked
about these four things the mo the most
important thing is that Jesus Christ
bore the message saying no oh Israel the
Lord your God the Lord is one and now
you said one one one yeah no he's look
you didn't do this this you didn't do
this you didn't do any of this no making
it look it up in mark Mark 1229 Matthew
2237 and Luke 10:27 okay three time
three times he Bears the message that
God is one uh this relates back to the
first commandment as you find in Exodus
23 so the the bottom line is that Jesus
Christ came saying what saying he was
not sent but to the lost sheep of the
House of Israel lost sheep what does
this mean this means that they have gone
astray from their message okay and what
is the message that he is reminding them
of he he is reminding them of their law
he is reminding them of Ted the Oneness
of God pure monotheism pure monotheism
now where trism where does Jesus Christ
ever speak about the trinity in the
Bible did you ever utter this word you
the Trinity is nowhere to be found in
the Bible and the biblical passages that
people hold up to uh support the Bible
uh cannot be used to support the excuse
me the biblical passages that the
trinitarians hold up to support the
Trinity um are actually cannot cannot be
used to support the Trinity for example
the most common one is the first Epistle
of John 5 5: uh 7 through 8 okay those
were written into the margins of
scripture by a scribe those were not in
the original scripture all right most
most valid Bibles of this day have have
removed that from from uh from the
translation because it's recognized as
invalid and in the same way other
passages which some claim to support the
Trinity can be refuted very very simply
not nothing eloquent but this is kind of
you know we we've jumped away from the
subject the point the point is that
whether you're talking about appearance
manners religious practices practices of
worship or the the Creed that Jesus
Christ taught he taught God is one he
taught that he was son of man Jesus
Christ called himself the son of man 88
times not the Son of God no no and this
comes down to the you know a very very
critical uh separation and that is the
separation between the teachings of
Jesus Christ and the teachings of Paul
and the reason why this is critical is
because Christianity is founded more
upon the teachings of Paul than upon the
teachings of Jesus Christ we're going to
have to do that in part two we have a
couple more minutes left now it sounds
like to me and we know that all the
prophets of God they taught Islam Islam
is that call to acquire peace by
submitting your will to the owner of
Peace the one God and a Muslim is one
who does Islam was Jesus a Muslim all of
the prophets were Muslims I mean you
said all of them that includes so you're
saying Jesus that's a bold statement Dr
Brown you have to understand what Muslim
means Muslim means a person of Islam
Islam means a person who submits their
will to Allah okay so yes Islam might
have had the name Islam from the time of
Muhammad peace be upon him but all
people of all time who submitted
themselves to the will of God were
Muslims was Abraham a human being yes
but when did this word human being come
into existence it wasn't during his
lifetime nice nice I see I see I like
that example Moses Noah J human beings
were they human beings that word didn't
exist during their lifetime I like that
I like that the word came into existence
later but it applies backwards as well
same thing with the word Islam Islam is
a general I mean it's a description of
those who submitted their Wills to Allah
and even though that word may have you
know come into existence with the
revelation of the Holy Quran and the
prophethood of Muhammad peace be upon
him it applies to those before him as
well who fulfilled the uh the
qualification one last point we're out
of time one last point you said earlier
he was a Jew now we're saying he's a
Muslim how do you put the two together
can be both at the same same time yeah
AB absolutely he was an orthodox Jew in
the sense that he was not bringing any
new law yeah he was he was restoring the
law of Moses okay so I mean he was in
the lineage of of uh David right and uh
so he fulfilled the qualifications of of
being considered a Jew so that could be
like a national nationality so you could
be a Jew who's a Muslim like like you
could be a Bosnian Muslim Serbian Muslim
yeah exactly I mean it doesn't matter
Muslim Russia China Muslim South America
je Muslim whatever yeah you know and it
doesn't matter what your ethnicity is
remember how I mean remember being a Jew
was basically an ethnicity it was back
at that time to be a Hebrew right you
know and uh and so you were ethnically a
Hebrew but you could still be I mean
gosh you could be a communist a
socialist a Democrat or what but when it
comes to religion they were all all of
the prophets were Muslim we're going to
take a break and we're going to have to
come back continue this topic it's a
vast topic and we're going to talk about
the comparison what you said the split
between the teachings of Jesus peace be
upon him and Paul in our next episodes
sounds good can you do this God willing
thank you we'll see you in a few Salam
alikum and thank you for tuning in to
another episode of the dean show we've
come to a close but you got to see it
all the evidence adds up that Jesus
peace be upon him who is beloved to our
hearts he was a Muslim he submitted
himself entirely not to himself but he
submitted himself to the one God the
creator of the heavens and earth and he
was a messenger of God and we follow the
teachings of all the messengers
including the last and final messenger
sent to mankind the prophet Muhammad
peace be upon Him tune in again where
we're going to cover the teachings of
Jesus and the teachings of Paul we're
going to continue on with Dr Lawrence
Brown Next time here on the dean show
will be and we'll see you then peace I
am not afid stand alone
I am not afraid to stand alone if Li by
I am not afraid to stand
alone I am not afraid to stand alone if
Li by I am not afraid to stand
alone I am not afraid to stand alone if
a li by I am not afraid to stand alone
so if you find yourself your Iman is
going down check
[Music]
yourself there is none worthy to be
worshiped except Allah alone you got
some CD or some music in the car bobbing
your head to 50 cents or no it's common
sense don't do things that can hurt
people Lady gaga goo and all that other
nonsense believe is Haram backbiting
slandering and such substance as
smoking stay tuned 18-in biceps we'll
see what happens to Eddie on The Dean
show and we holding it down on the dean
show early make sure y'all tune
in alhamdulillah Alum peace be with you
I'm Ed your host you're watching the
dean show and in the dean show Studio we
have Dr Lawrence
Brown who you can visit at theen
show.com you can hear hear his soul
story read a little bit about him and
we're going to come back and continue
talking
about who's following Jesus more are the
Muslims or the
Christians and you need to know that we
really want the best for all of humanity
Islam says love all mankind and that's
why we want to talk about these topics
and we want to put the evidence on the
table and we want you to have an open
heart and open mind and decide for
yourself decide for yourself what makes
the most sense and when we come back
we're going to make sense of it all with
Dr Lawrence BR Brown here on the dean
show God willing sit
tight one of the beautiful things about
our religion of Islam is the emphasis on
Direct ritual and prayer to God directly
there is no intermediary the lights will
go on after the party and the party will
end it's very simple and very clear
there are no superstitious rituals no
strange incantations time is running out
we might not make it till tomorrow and
this is something that we need to think
this is an interesting thing that the um
you know we think when we read the Bible
that we're we're obviously reading the
words that Matthew wrote or that Paul
wrote um but the reality is we don't
have the originals of Matthew or Paul's
letters or of any other book of the New
Testament or of the Old Testament what
we have are copies of these books that
were made uh later in many cases uh many
most cases many centuries later so so uh
we the New Testament was originally
written in Greek and at present we have
something like 5,500 manuscripts in
Greek of the new testament which is a
lot for an ancient book it's far more
than any other ancient book The problem
is most of these copies are hundreds and
hundreds of years after the originals
and all of them have differences in them
uh so that the scribes who were copying
these manuscripts changed the text that
they were copying uh sometimes by
accident I mean sometimes they just made
mistakes they were sleepy or incompetent
or whatever but sometimes it looks like
scribes actually thought the text should
say something other than it did and then
they so they would change the textum
peace be with
you thank you very much for joining us
Dr
Brown now time is short and it's of the
essence people can go to the Deen
show.com read a little bit about you you
have a doctors in Divinity you have a
PhD in religious studies uh you're eye
doctor by profession correct
opthalmologist yep eyes
yeah now you weren't a General close to
being a colonel former US
major did you say ha
haa the only General I was ever was I
was a pain in the behind but a general
pain in the behind but yeah but uh no I
was a major yeah that's right okay so
great so you are someone who's qualified
to talk about this topic in your
previous shows that we' done you talked
about that you were an atheist actually
you were trying very hard to be a
Christian and you ended up becoming a
Muslim the same way of life that Jesus
peace be upon and followed and we
covered this in our last show and we
want to make sense of it all that's how
I opened up the topic we want to make
sense of it all there's a lot of
confusion out there and you said there
was a split in the last show people
again go to to watch that show we did
you said there was a split between the
true teachings of Jesus peace be upon
him and now the teachings of Paul right
well it it's it's more in the practical
sense it's a division between the
teachings of Jesus Christ and the
teachings of the church at this point
but uh what it comes down to is the
teachings of Jesus versus the teachings
of Paul because the foundation of
Christianity at this point is more upon
the teachings of Paul than upon the
teachings of Jesus now a lot of
Christians will not like hearing this a
lot of a lot of people out there a lot
of Christians hearing that Christianity
is founded more upon the teachings of
Paul than upon the teachings of Jesus
Will object to that um but the fact of
the matter is that that is so well
recognized now even even among Christian
Scholars that uh that the Christians
themselves you know many Christians
themselves are are speaking of this of
this very fact is there a Bible that has
not only the red letters the black
letters the gray letters and now you can
see like what the words allegedly are
that are closest to being possibly the
words of Jesus not at all said by Jesus
Jesus might have been said by Jesus
right right well I think what you're
talking about is the Jesus seminar the
Jesus the Jesus seminar has published a
uh a book called The Five gospels and
it's basically the four well-known
gospels Matthew Mark Luke and John Jesus
seminar who who's what's this well the
Jesus seminar is a body of uh of
Christian fellows who came together to
uh analyze the Bible and and by
analyzing the Bible agree upon the
authenticity of uh Jesus's sayings
within the Bible are you Scholars that
got together they're priests ministers
pastors they're they're religious
Scholars of a variety of denominations
how many of them got together 200 over
time 200 yeah over you know as memory
serves over time they they have a list
of 200 fellows and what did they
conclude well basically in in publishing
the uh the the five gospels they they
published uh they published the you know
the four well-known gospels Matthew Mark
Luke and John and then the Gospel of
Thomas and the uh the point behind
publishing it was to show which words
attributed to Jesus in the Bible were
most likely actually said by him and
which words were not so they they graded
them for example if they felt that the
words if they agreed that the words were
most likely stated by Jesus Christ than
it was in red uh if it was probable that
that he stated the words then they are
in pink if uh it is most likely that he
did not say those words then it is in
Gray and if if they felt that he
definitely did not say those words then
it was in Black now you would have to
look at their you would have to look at
their scheme for analyzing to get the
exact classification
I might be a little bit you know you
know shade of gray off on their
classifications but U but that's
basically what it came down to and and
when you look through that book what I
can tell you is that you'll just find an
awful lot of black and gray and very you
know very little of it from what you
would expect is actually in in Red so um
this is this is just to support the fact
that as most Christians know there is
tremend mendous controversy over what
Jesus Christ actually said actually did
and this is why you find so many books
saying who was the historical Jesus who
was he really what did he really say
what did he really teach people might
say hold on hold on we have Matthew Mark
Luke and John and these were his
companions and they're telling us what
he said they had firsthand accounts okay
well first first of all uh we have to
remember that Matthew Mark Luke and John
were not necessarily written by his
Earthly disciples okay all four of these
gospels are Anonymous you're kidding me
uh no you know as Muslims we have to
tell the truth you cannot you cannot uh
bend the truth you can't play with the
truth you got to speak the truth so what
you're saying is a fact or is this uh
according to Dr Lawrence prown opinion
no no this this is this is well known go
to go to any Seminary School uh go to
any true Christian scholar read Graham
Stanton Reed Bart ER all of this is
referenced in my books uh you can find
the exact quotations but the the bottom
line is that all four of the gospels are
Anonymous documents they are not signed
they are within the framework of the
actual manuscript they are not
attributed to any uh to any of the
disciples uh so the uh the general
feeling among the Scholastic community
of this time is that none of the four
gospels can be attributed to one of
Jesus Christ's Earthly disciples so how
do we come back we come back now as
Muslims and people already know by
watching the show that basically a
Muslim is one who submits to the will of
God and we say Jesus was a Muslim we we
say that Jesus never taught as you said
in the last show that he never T taught
the Trinity he he never heard the word
Trinity that he never said that he was
going to come to die for the sins of the
world but where are we getting this from
do we see this in any of the red letters
that we have well uh I mean these are
subjects that uh you know basically they
really deserve to be tackled yeah um but
each one is a subject unto itself but
doesn't this come CU we put now Jesus
peace be upon them and most people you
know to support this they'll go to
Paul the writings of Paul won't they
well yeah and and this is kind of this
is kind of the point we we started out
talking about on the last episode we
talked about the fact that the Muslims
emulate the appearance of Jesus Christ
closer than the Christians wearing
wearing a beard wearing modest clothing
as Jesus Christ did the Muslim women
wear a head scarf at did as did maram
the mother of Jesus okay
we the the practicing Muslims the
practicing Muslims they conduct
themselves with humility with modesty
and they follow the tenant of religious
practice that Jesus Christ taught of
bearing the greeting of Peace okay uh
other religious practi practices as we
spoke about circumcision avoiding pork
avoiding Usery avoiding avoiding contact
with the opposite sex these these were
all practices of Jesus Christ that that
Muslims follow better than the example
of the Christians when you come into the
acts of of actual worship making
avolution before prayer praying in
prostration fasting you know a month
during the year in Ramadan making
pilgrimage for religious purposes these
were all practices of Jesus which we
find find better exemplified among the
Muslims than among the the Christians
when when it comes to Creed we find
Jesus Christ teaching three places in
the Bible that God is one and we don't
find him teaching the Trinity anywhere
now that's a big issue and we can come
back to that let's come back to that
after the break is that okay that's fine
we're going to take a break we'll be
right back with more here with Lawrence
Brown on The Dean show I am AF
stand am not afraid to stand alone if Li
I am not afraid to stand alone
I am not afraid to stand alone if Li by
I am not afraid to stand
alone I am not afraid to stand alone if
Li I am not afraid stand
[Music]
Al uh some places it looks like it's a
manipulation of the text where where the
author wants to change where where the
Scribe wants to change what the author
said I mean in many cases it may be that
the Scribe thought this is what the
author really meant and so he changed it
but uh but sometimes the the text gets
changed to say just the opposite of what
it originally said and so uh that's that
that can be a little bit troubling yeah
back here on the dean show with Dr
Lawrence Brown and I want to go back to
Jesus and Paul how does this get
intertwined now how do we get from Jesus
was Paul some apostle was he another
messenger who was Paul okay well this
this is kind of where I was leading to
yeah when we just before the break um we
we were looking in the first episode of
of the series we were looking at how the
teachings and the example of Jesus
Christ we find them in many in many
cases better exemplified among the
Muslims than among the Christians and uh
what we're what we're talking about is
how both Christians and Muslims say that
they are followers of
Jesus Christ who is really doing it now
when you look at the teachings of Jesus
Christ and you look at the teachings of
Paul one thing that really stands out is
that they're almost virtual opposites
opposite it's now you would expect them
to be the same it's like the the
antithesis of each other's teaching no
you would expect them to be the same and
the church makes them sound like they're
the same but in fact they're basically
opposites I'll give you an example I
mean Jesus Christ taught Old Testament
law yeah all right he he he came bearing
the the law of Moses not trying to
change it he said you know he's he said
he expressly stated that he did not come
to destroy the law and the prophets I
did not come but to fulfill and he he
you know he came as what Christians
recognize him to have been Rabbi Jesus
right so being Rabbi Jesus I what does
it mean to be a a rabbi I I mean
obviously you're following Old Testament
law so Jesus Jesus Christ bore the Old
Testament law to you know to the people
Paul negated it you know Paul basically
came up with the concept of
justification by faith so on one hand
you had Jesus Christ holding the people
accountable to the law on the other hand
you had Paul saying no more yeah can
canceling it um in the same way Jesus
Christ stated that he was an ethnic
Prophet M he he stated do not he stated
that you know he did not did not come
but to the lost sheep of the House of
Israel yes negating everybody else I did
not come but to the lost sheep of the
House of Israel Paul said he's a he's a
universal Prophet for everybody okay now
you can't have it both ways Jesus Christ
said one thing Paul said another and
these two things cannot they are
mutually exclusive you cannot you cannot
blend them uh Jesus Christ taught prayer
to
God I mean the Lord's Prayer you know
when you pray pray in this way right and
he taught prayer to God our Father Who
Art in Heaven mhm he he didn't say to
the people pray to me Jesus Christ
taught prayer to God Paul taught prayer
to Jesus uhhuh Jesus Christ taught
Divine Unity uhhuh he he he taught that
you know the Lord Our God the god the
Lord our go he taught the Lord Our God
the Lord is one mhm okay but is the
Pauline theologians who who 300 years
later derived the concept of the Trinity
so all I'm saying all I'm saying is that
if you look at the Bible and see how the
teachings of Paul contradict the
teachings of Jesus you basically are
drawn to consider the fact that you need
to decide which one you're going to
follow you're going to follow Jesus
Christ yeah a recognized Prophet okay or
you're going to f find Paul a man who
never even met Jesus Christ was not not
one of his Earthly disciples claimed to
have a conversion through a mystical
experience uh and then went on to teach
things very contrary to what Jesus
Christ taught so he wasn't an apostle he
wasn't a prophet he wasn't someone
chosen by Jesus or God to speak on their
behalf well what is an apostle I mean
people call him an apostle and they
elevate
him they elevate his status according to
how they recognize him but he was not he
was not a disciple he was not uh you
know he was not an associate uhuh of
Jesus Christ no not at all okay and did
the brother of Jesus James who's
mentioned in the Bible and many of the
other companions did they if you read
the Bible take him to task for a lot of
the things that he was teaching oh
definitely and the conflict between the
conflict between the teachings of Paul
and the teachings of Jesus basically
were the the foundation of the conflict
between Paul and the true disciples for
example if you read if you read James
right what is it all about it's all
about I shouldn't say all about but you
know pretty much about this conflict I I
mean uh the uh you know the uh chapter
faith without works is dead is a chapter
in which James is is telling Paul
that the the people have a assembled and
they are going to pass judgment upon him
and so he's telling him repent you know
repent from the path that you are taking
the negating the Old Testament law and
and and changing the concept of uh the
reality of Jesus Christ James is telling
Jesus I mean Paul you have to remember
Paul put forward the concept of
justification by faith yeah that you are
justified in all things by faith and not
not by uh not by the law okay you're not
you not held to the difficulties of the
Old Testament law um this in their time
was punishable by death yes this was
blasphemy okay and so James was James
was as you said taking him to task uh in
in the same way you see conflict with
Barnabas you see con conflict with Peter
you know the alleged Rock upon which the
church would be built and so on so uh
you you find I find one disciple I mean
just find one disciple who agreed with
Paul who wrapped his arm around him and
said yeah buddy you and me were in this
together it didn't happen so if you look
at if you look at the the Bible and now
you look at it with an open heart open
mind and not what you know your pastor
or preacher is telling you and you look
at what God is saying what Jesus is
saying what James his brother is saying
you'll find them in unity but when if
you look at what Paul is saying you see
the exact opposite the antithesis of
their
teachings basic basically you find Jesus
keeping uh to a particular teaching you
find James and the disciples
exemplifying that or following that and
you find Paul uh on the opposite side
he's going somewhere over here way off
the left and and and this he's he's out
of the ballpark no this is this is why
uh you know this is this is why many
scholars have basically
uh
categorized uh Christianity into uh the
category of those who are following the
teachings of Jesus those who are
basically Pauline Christians in in the
modern sense of Pauline Christians which
meaning means following the teachings of
Paul it seems like there has to be
another Messenger to come it seems like
there's some confusion and there has to
be someone else coming to make things
right was there any talk of another
prophet in the Old Testament the New
Testament that talks about another
Prophet who's going to set things
straight this this actually okay this
might sign sound like a complex issue
but it actually is very straightforward
the Old Testament speaks of three
prophets to follow go and ask any Jewish
rabbi anywhere in the world how many
prophets they are expecting to follow
and they will say three now there's
evidence for this in the New Testament
go to your new testament open it up
you'll find that when John the Baptist
was preaching the Jews sent their
Scholars to ask him who he was and they
they say they accost him basically and
they ask him they say are you Elijah he
says no are you the Christ he says no
are you that prophet he says no how many
fingers is that Elijah Christ that
Prophet three fingers three okay and
when he denies it then they actually
they restate it they say if you are not
Elijah if you are not the Christ if you
are not that Prophet who are you okay so
it it was clearly clearly acknowledging
the fact that they were expecting three
prophets now later on we find Jesus
Christ identifying John the Baptist as
uh
Elijah another passage is in conflict
with this but we take it upon faith that
out of these three prophets John the
Baptist was one Jesus Christ was the
second and that leaves the third who's
unaccounted for Holy
Ghost do they argue this Holy Ghost no
that has nothing to do with nothing to
do with it you can't use it as an
argument we're not talking about the
Trinity here we're talking about the
expected prophets to follow in the in
the continuity of the chain of
Revelation okay Prophet this is someone
that's coming yeah the this is a a human
entity okay okay so as I said out of the
three John the Baptist was number one
Jesus Christ was the second one and this
leaves one additional Prophet this is
why Christianity is identified as a
Messianic religion because they are
still waiting for the final prophet to
complete the predictions of their own
scripture can we tell them the final
Prophet the last and final Prophet that
sent to mankind when we come back from
the
break fine we'll be right back with Dr
Brown on the outside everything looks
good you see the $100,000 CS you see a
lot of diamonds you see a lot of females
and they think that this is you know
this is the life this is this is like
you know Paradise right here on
Earth it's not anyone's job to go into
someone's heart and change their
your job is to tell people what the
truth is and the reality of it is while
we're sitting here while I'm sitting
here constantly paying for the
disease was
[Music]
free as I studied more and more using my
intelligence as an Evangelical but also
praying about it I became convinced that
the New Testament gospels were not
written by eyewitnesses or by people who
knew eyewitnesses the first first point
to make is the rather obvious one that
the gospels don't claim to be written by
eyewitnesses they are all Anonymous the
titles in your gospels The Gospel
according to Matthew and so forth were
added by later editors they were not put
there by the original authors back here
on the dean show and everything God
willing it uh it's making sense if you
have an open heart and open mind is
making sense you're talking about we
left off the three to come and two are
already there John Baptist is this Yahya
in Arabic Y and then Jesus Christ isau
that's the second Jews refused to accept
him as a prophet we accept that he was
one of the mightiest messengers of God
no muslim is a Muslim L he believes in
Jesus there's one last prophet peace be
upon him and as his teachings
everything's got to be set straight no
more confusion can you talk to us who is
this Mighty messenger well I know of
course you want me to say Muhammad sallu
alai wasam and that's that's of course
my answer that's of course your answer
the the bottom line though is that each
person has to examine the life of
Muhammad peace be upon Him examine the
Revelation that he brought and based
upon that
examination along with prayers to God to
to to guide you each person has to come
to their own conclusion I like that I
like we're not going to push it on
nobody no we're not pushy I mean it's
it's it's it's easy to stand up in front
of a camera and say the final Prophet
was Muhammad Believe It Believe it or
look look it's not that way okay yeah I
mean it's not that way we we are we are
inviting people to examine our beliefs
we are inviting people to to examine the
evidence for themselves and to come to
their own conclusions yeah so we're
going to leave it up to the people now y
it's confusion out there and you know
things aren't making sense look it's not
complete confusion I mentioned before
the break that the Old Testament spoke
of three prophets to follow okay
excluding I mean I mean taking way John
the Baptist in Jesus Christ that leaves
one you would expect in the New
Testament to find reference to that one
you would expect to find Jesus Christ
speaking of that one and in fact he does
there is a famous pass passage in which
Jesus Christ mentions the fact that it
is good that he will go because if he
does not go he cannot send what is
written in the foundational manuscript
as alos paracletos okay alos paracletos
alos means another paracletos means
comforter Advocate like a legal legal
Advocate a
helper um what is paracletos it doesn't
matter why because elsewhere in the
Bible in the first Epistle of John 2:1
Jesus Christ is identified as paracletos
as a paraclet okay M so now we know what
a paraclet is whatever a paraclet is
Jesus Christ was one and now he is
saying that after he goes he will send
alos paricle
another paraclet mhm the key word here
is another all right in the co Greek
there were two words for another one is
alos one is heteros heteros meant
another where there are two alos meant
another where there are many alos
paracletos meant another of whatever
Jesus Christ was because he was a
paraclet also so another of many like
what Jesus Christ was doesn't that sound
more like the final prophet in the
completion of the chain of revelation of
many
prophets so actually even in the New
Testament you find evidence of the final
foretold Prophet as Muslims we believe
that to be Muhammad peace be upon him
and all those who are upon a religious
investigation simply need to examine the
evidences for themselves Just One Last
point just please tell me if someone
just to move this out of their mind
someone says again that's the Holy Ghost
what do you got to say
there's I'm sorry but there's nobody who
believes that that passage nobody among
Scholars who believes that that passage
refers to the Holy Ghost because this is
not speaking of the Trinity okay the
passages that they claim to speak of the
Trinity are welln wasn't the Holy Ghost
there at that time the the Holy Ghost
was pre-existent pre okay I mean it it
was it was referenced before during
after the mission of Jesus Christ so so
it but but this is I mean I'm just I've
heard people say this that when you
mention this some people say okay this
was that the Holy Ghost that's going to
come and be inside of you and you got to
get full of it to understand it yeah but
these I'm sorry but these are you know
I'm sorry to put it on these terms but
these are the Ley these are the people
who are just they're creating an
explanation for it okay these are not
the scholars I see get a scholar on your
show who says that I I mean I I don't
think you'll find a valid a valid
Christian scholar anywhere in the world
who will claim that these passages refer
to the Holy
Ghost because these passages you know
explicitly refer to uh to predicted
prophets I'm in the middle of reading
some of your books goded misot it I love
them tell us a little bit about your
books that you got and where people can
get a hold of you Dr Brown okay well uh
there are two websites one is
ec.com uh just spell it as it's sounds
8th EIG g h t scroll s c r o l.com the
second website is level truth.com
um the series of books that I have
written include an action adventure
novel called the eighth
scroll then Scholastic religious books
which contain everything that we've been
talking about today and a great deal
more the first one is misg godded the
second one is goded and if you go to the
website level truth.com you will find
also articles my conversion story um and
uh and I have other books that are soon
to be published thank you very much may
God Almighty Allah reward you for being
with us thank you very much thank you
for having me thank you and thank you
for tuning in to another episode of the
dean show thank you thank you so much
and we never want to hurt anyone's
feelings we are sincerely trying to
deliver to what we feel is the truth
it's very simple it's rational logical
all you have to have is an open heart
and open mind and we talked about the
teachings of Jesus peace be upon them
and then we're following those teachings
and we talked
about Islam which simply means to
acquire peace by submitting yourself
entirely to the owner piece the one God
and that is what all the messengers of
God were on and that's what we're on so
if you want to learn more continue to
tune in to the dean show you can even
call the 1800 number on the screen to
get a free copy of the Quran
and we'll see you next time God willing
inshallah until then peace be unto
you he created the
universe to him belong the heavens and
the
Earth the ever living He is the
first he's the owner of
Mercy he sent his
Messengers to on his
[Music]
creatures of the Grave
dangers of worship in Allah than
Allah there is none
greater than the
[Music]
Creator
Allah there is is none
greater than the
Creator Allah