this is Dr Lawrence Brown I'm back here
again at the invitation of my friend
Eddie rovic we're going to be talking
with you about the middle path don't go
anywhere this is really going to be a
nice
show the
dean the dean peace be with you welcome
to the dean show I'm Eddie your host
another week another exciting episode
Another exciting guest is about to come
out in a minute we're going to be
talking about the middle path people
become religious quote unquote and now
they might end up doing some very
extreme things and then the whole
religion gets blamed and then some
people experience the truth they realize
there is a purpose in life they start to
live it they enjoy it but then they
slack off they go to another EXL they
become extremely neglectful of their
responsibilities so how do we as those
who have come to know what the purpose
of life is we're living a way of life
that's pleasing to the crater how do we
stay on the middle path well we got our
brother coming out who's got a ton of
experience a ton of years in Islam my
next guest Dr Lis brown with him here on
the dean show when we come back don't go
anywhere this is the
[Music]
the
the this is the the show
and my next guest started off as an
atheist that's right tried very hard to
be a Christian and now he's on the dean
show he's figured out the purpose of
life and how we going to stay on the
moderate path we're going to get his
experiences in life in the dean with my
next guest Dr Lawrence
[Music]
Brown peace be with you Asam alaykum how
are you sh how you you been Dr Brown
alhamdulillah good long time I know look
at that it's been a long time yeah how's
life been how's everything been going
you're part of the world yeah no things
are good you know people know you from
the program that we did originally and
that was actually back in
in
20078 I mean it was what uh yeah it's
got to be about six or seven years ago
we we talked about you coming from The
Atheist logic right and then you grew
out of that right and actually look for
more on that uh coming up because I'm
doing a lot of work on how to refute
atheism right now and that's that's kind
of um a focus of mine at the moment uh I
did a program where I actually mentioned
you and I always refer people to the
struggle that you were going through
that we all as God Almighty is telling
us that do you think you'll be left
alone and saying look I believe and you
won't be tested and how you actually you
went from having a house guest house and
losing even the guest dog or guest house
all of that and you hung in there and
you were living in a dayby u uh day
Motel Night by motel hotel and you talk
about that in the program we did that
was your Jihad your struggle it's kind
of like that old saying you know how far
the high have fallen and it's not that I
was really so high high up in the
socioeconomic ladder so to speak but uh
but no I had things pretty good uh at
the time I became Muslim I was living in
a large house on a basically estate with
a a guest house and and so on and uh and
had the standard uh standard sort of
Duna toys of of this life and uh then
when I became Muslim I became
divorced I lost all of that and uh went
to a very very simple life where because
I was so fin finally strapped I mean I
had A4 million dollars just in paintings
which I lost in the divorce settlement
and so I went to this very simple life
where I was just living in a studio
apartment I was renting by the week and
I was sharing that with another brother
who was on hard
times and the thing that I remember most
about that time was how I was so happy
and I didn't understand why mhm I was
saying to myself what's wrong with me me
I mean I've I've lost my wife lost my
kids my house my car my property my uh
my wealth and and you know different
things and like I said the paintings and
the bank and why am I happy and then I
realized that before all of this
happened when I became when I became
Muslim and I started having troubles
with my wife and we were trying to sort
things out I kept praying istara prayer
which is the prayer for guidance and in
this guidance prayer you're asking Allah
to bring what he knows to be best for
you not what you think is best but what
he knows to be best for you and you end
the Prayer by saying and bless me with
abundance therein and make me pleased
with it and I suddenly
realized the completeness with which
Allah answers your
prayers when when he answers your
prayers down to you
know the final item that's why I was so
happy because say the prayer ends with
bless me with abundance therein and make
me pleased with it and suddenly I
understood why it was that I was feeling
happy in this setting of what you would
assumed to be tragedy so you went from
singing I mean it sounded like a sad
country song you know the person sing
and they lost everything I really do
miss that dog
yeah but I didn't so I mention I tell
people to you know many people come into
Islam you think their problem's going to
go away obviously you know God is
testing us and you found the truth but
now once Calamity struggles come into
your life you know we have to be patient
with the test and this shows our
sincerity so I direct people to watch
this this uh show that we did for you
and how God Almighty replaced everything
at the end what you lost he replaced it
with that which was better yeah and this
is something I have told people a lot
over the past years I've been Muslim now
for about 20 years and one of the things
uh that has happened during that time so
many times people have come to me advice
asking advice about becoming Muslim and
I tell them number one expect to be
tested and number two um just remember
that you don't give up anything for the
pleasure of Allah except that Allah
replace it replaces it with that which
he knows to be better for you and that's
what happened in my experience so we go
ahead I'm sorry no it kind of leads into
our discussion about the middle path
because I've seen so many people over
the last 20 years deviate in different
directions away from the middle path uh
and it kind of starts from the very
first
day kind of you know the person who who
will accept the religion as long as it
gives them exactly what they want out of
it but if it doesn't then they go back
that's and that's a form of extremism
that that's where we're going to go from
there we got to take a break and that's
what we want to talk about want to talk
about the moderate the middle way
and how people who come into this way of
life because the media will have you
everybody programmed now that you accept
Islam and now you're going to end up
blowing something up blowing yourself up
doing all sorts of disaster and harming
society which the opposite should be
happening we got a lot to talk with you
about here with Dr Lawrence Brown on The
Dean show don't go anywhere the dean
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back here on the dean show so Dr Brown
usually typically this is how what has
happened you know sometimes from the
media they start to feed the average
Layman certain images and after so much
repetition on this people start to
believe look okay scenario a person's
son daughter accepts Islam now they
didn't have a problem with their son
let's say being involved in in in drugs
and alcoholism maybe he even uh went to
alternative lifestyle did all sorts of
crazy stuff and his patients were
patient with were patient with him now
he became a Muslim one who submits to
the will of God he's forgot the purpose
of life now they Panic now the house is
upside down because they've been seeing
from the media that some of these
converts they end up doing extreme crazy
things right okay yeah absolutely I mean
it's it's a weird thing because you see
somebody cleaning up their act going
from as you said maybe they were
alcoholic maybe they were using drugs uh
fornication whatever bad things you you
might want to put on the list and then
then they start to clean up their act
and uh yet when when they become Muslim
and that becomes the path by which
they're cleaning up their act people
people think something is wrong and
that's just it's from the media there is
no doubt but that the media in the west
is creating a strong negative bias bias
against Islam now now you also have
other parents you have people is a true
story the guy ends up uh seeing a Muslim
praying in the street he's praying cab
driver pulls up starts praying next to a
hot dog stand and the individual his son
had accepted Islam and then at the end
he goes oh you're Muslim he sees him
praying he says yeah he goes my son is
Muslim too and then the Muslim says are
you happy he says I can sleep at night
because he knows now what his son was
involved in and he had all these
restless nights now this person is
actually a good example of how a Muslim
is supposed to be kinder to his parents
supposed to be better a better human
being better to society not a detent to
society that's that middle moderate
course isn't it yeah well I think that I
think that what we see time and time
again is that when people come to really
know Islam as it really is they lose
their fears um how many times how many
times have I heard people saying oh so
it's not like what I saw on such and
such a channel U you know and they you
know when when they get to know Muslims
and they learn what Islam is all about
and they see the noble manners of the
Muslims The Good Conduct the generosity
the honesty um the you know abstaining
from the different sinful vices uh yeah
it's a completely different picture
which is why which is why it is so
important for the Muslims in the west to
remain upon the middle path because
they are they are basically the living
examples of what Islam should be to
these people who do not know okay and if
they are projecting
Islam as uh as something other than what
it really is then they are becoming part
of the problem rather than part of the
solution you know Islam is the religion
of the middle path and this is stressed
over and over and over again but you you
find a lot of you know
overzealous um converts kind of like the
reformed smoker or for for whatever
reason going to the extreme of U you
know fanaticism and and ending up
becoming part of the problem not part of
the solution even though this is a very
I mean the media inflates this to such a
degree that's just unbelievable but even
the statistic I did a Show recently
where we actually talked about the far
greater threat to America has nothing to
do with Islam or Muslims this is a very
small minority right and we we even
address this but I mean you have extreme
Christians radical just Robert duer this
man was just trying to annihilate a
whole Muslim Community the Press didn't
cover this at all you have so many
examples of extreme non-muslim uh
terrorists actually don't even get
called terrorists but uh obviously Islam
is free of this how how have you uh
manage to stay obviously uh some people
I guess they don't get their way and
they start being NE neglectful of their
their duties prayer fasting all the
other things that are incumbent on every
Muslim or someone become just extreme in
general does some extreme things uh how
have you been able to manage to stay on
on a middle way that we can get some of
your
experiences um from when you came into
now I mean I have to say you know
blessings from Allah um that's number
one because it's it's very easy to get
pulled in One Direction or another and
uh
so uh that's I mean that's really that's
really what it comes down to and I
think what it has to do what a lot of it
is is uh following your
desires if you're if you're following
the religion you're following what uh
what comes down to us through the Quran
and through the prophetic sunah uh it
becomes it becomes very clear that uh
these different extreme paths are are
off of the metal path okay um but if you
start following your desires you know
for example I mean you're a youthful
hotthead and you you want to go out do
something dramatic something big so well
there are people out there who have
deviant
ideology who you know who are looking
for people like that who they can grab a
hold of and fan the Flames of fanaticism
and and and have them go out and commit
a terrorist act and then there are
people in the media who jump all over
that because they try to make the
Deviant individual look normative in
other words you know they they try to
make it look like that's the normal for
Islam whereas in fact the Islamic
community themselves cast that person
out
yes we're going to go ahead and take a
break we're with Dr Lawrence Brown here
on the dean show giving us some of his
experiences and we'll be right back with
more don't go
anywhere what are you going to do with
it if somebody's been trying to deliver
something to you like we've been trying
to deliver the truth that there's only
one God that you worship him alone not
his
creation welcome to the dean show one of
the most exciting purpose of life talk
shows in the world since since 2006 the
dean show has been working on clearing
up the many false misconceptions about
Islam and Muslims and at the same time
delivering the simple message of the
purpose of life in a fun and exciting
way one time I was at a restaurant I was
dressed like this and a woman came to me
she said are you a rabbi said yeah I'm a
black Rabbi you we want you to develop a
better understanding about the pure
Islam and the real message that it
teaches peace submission surrender and
obedience to almighty God who disbelieve
in any one of the messengers of God is
to disbelieve in all of them Isam says
love all mankind that's why we're
sharing this message because we want the
best for you and we want the best for
all mankind we'll see you next time God
willing on The Dean show continue to
tune in peace be unto you please
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below back here with former major in the
military Air Force you you've driven
actually uh f16s or uh no flown not FL
flown F16 no no I was a for military I
was a doctor in the Air Force doctor in
the Air Force and uh former atheists
tried very hard to be a Christian what
was it about Islam that uh just in a in
a um in a few before we get more into
the topic what was it really about Islam
that captivated you well it's kind of
the uh subject of this talk and it's
interesting that you bring us to that
point when this is not rehearsed because
uh basically I was was on a religious
search and I you know I had studied the
Old Testament and that had brought me to
a study of the New
Testament uh in my reading of the Old
Testament uh the Old Testament
identifies three prophets to follow and
then you come to the new
testament which again references those
three prophets um there is a scene or a
passage in which the Jews send their
their Scholars to ask John the Baptist
who he is and they ask are you Elijah
and he says no and they say are you the
Christ and he says no and they say are
you that prophet and he says no and
wasn't once was not enough they then
clarify they say if you are not Elijah
if you are not the Christ if you are not
that Prophet who are you and he goes on
to his own explanation but in any case
the point is that's a direct statement
that the Jews expected three prophets to
follow you know Elijah uh the Christ and
that Prophet yes now uh Elijah has been
aligned with John the John the the
Baptist of of course the Christ with
Jesus and that left the third okay so in
studying Christianity what I found was
the same thing that I have found with
Islam and that is there's a middle path
there are the extremists who go to one
of two sides the one side of being too
soft in their religion you know and uh
and they don't really apply the tenants
of Faith as they should be
applied and then the those who swing too
far to the uh you know the super fanatic
side as well to to the point where you
can't even talk to them because they've
you know they've become so brainwashed
in their
ideology but this choice of going into
those paths is based upon their desires
that's what they're looking for okay on
the other hand there's this middle path
where you look for the continuity in the
chain of Revelation okay you look at the
continuity from you know Adam on up
through the chain of prophets through
Adam you know ibraim or Abraham uh you
know Isaac Isel Jacob and the tribes
Moses Jesus okay and we're left with
that one final Prophet as predicted in
the New Testament and that brought me to
Islam yeah but one of the things I
noticed in all of these and all of these
scriptures is that there was a middle
path okay and in all of these scriptures
there were those who went too far into
spiritualism to where it took them
astray and there were those who went too
far into sort of a militant fanaticism
or not even militant sometimes just
fanaticism where you couldn't even talk
with these people couldn't even reason
with these people because it was their
way or the highway and and their minds
weren't even open to discussion but
between those two extremes there was the
middle path of those people who you know
were applying their religion with reason
and that led me to Islam someone says
and you have all sorts of weird ideas
and someone says look says I have all
sorts of weird ideas no a lot of people
in general in general people have all
these weird ideas and we know that look
it's a mercy that we have this guidance
from the Creator uh a book that's been
unchanged tamper free tamper proof a
living miracle testable the Quran for
anybody sincerely who comes to it wants
to know the truth it's there it tells us
how we need to live the purpose of life
it's as bright as the day as bright as
the sun for anyone wants to see who
sincere now someone says look all these
religions they're basically the same
they're all hogwash they're made up by
human beings who try to control human
beings how do we know that uh aliens are
controlling us they're um you know
they're this whole thing is a fairy tale
God what what do you say to a person
like this look it's understandable
coming to that opinion in one sense and
that is that there are so many
deviations in religion that it is hard
to
find it is hard to find that middle path
it is hard to find those who are upon
the truth but you know you don't have
counterfeit
money unless there some somewhere is
real money okay you never you never ever
counterfeit something that doesn't exist
to begin with okay so counterfeit money
exists because real money
exists do you understand what I'm saying
brilliant I love it you can't you can't
fake something that is not there to
begin with MH all right so the fact that
there are a lot of counterfeits
charlatans people who use the religion
for their own advantes misguide the
masses line their pockets Etc ET the
fact that those people exist exist does
not mean that there is not a God and
that there is not a religion of truth
and that's the bottom
line in the end that's the question you
have to ask yourself do you believe in a
Creator we are the
creation we are the creation and the
evidence of the Creator surrounds us so
if you believe in a Creator you have to
believe that in his Mercy he has sent us
a message to show us the path to his
pleasure by which we can incur his
pleasure pleasure and receive the reward
of that in the
Hereafter and so you have to be upon the
path of looking for the the religion of
Truth and that brings me back to
something we were talking about earlier
which is you were saying how did I get
onto the middle path don't think you'll
do it from your intellect don't think
you'll do it from your intellect from
asking the people around you and so on
and so forth no amount of research no
amount of intelligence will bring you to
the straight path if your creator has
not written it for you you if you don't
have the
humility to ask your creator to guide
you don't expect that guidance to come
it might it might not but but true
guidance comes from our creator not from
ourselves brilliant beautiful tell us
now for the White House maybe they want
to invite you down to give a nice
presentation about Islam and Muslims
Maybe Harvard University maybe uh
another organization wants to get a hold
of or some people just want to get in
contact with you to ask you some
questions or read some of your books
tell us how they can find you well you
can find me on my main website level
truth.com if you go to level truth.com
the Muslims can find dawa Corner which
is a corner that gives you a lot of
tools for making daa um the non-muslims
can find can go to the S map the site
map will take you to all of my different
websites
among those are a website for atheists
called reality of god.com another
website for Christians called tro
jesus.com
point being that we as Muslims We
Believe ourselves to be following the uh
religion of Truth which was brought to
us by all the prophets and so so Jesus
of course is one of the great prophets
of
Islam but the main website as I said is
level truth.com
thank you very much thank you very much
Dr it's always a pleasure having you
here on the dean show pleasure to be
here forward to having you back again
peace be with you
Salam Subhan Allah alhamdulillah yes we
covered a lot of great points here the
middle path very important we don't go
to one extreme or another so we don't
get so negligent you've figured out what
the purpose of life is you've come into
this way of life oh so many benefits but
now you struggle a little bit and now
you just drop out no what happens at the
end you don't get your degree you don't
pass
so hang on during the tough times and
the easy times know that it's all a test
and then some people go to the opposite
extreme do fanatical crazy things like
people do in all religions but don't
blame the whole religion it's stand the
middleway and beautiful example
counterfeit there's a lot of counterfeit
religions out there man-made religions
we don't want to follow those but it all
starts with a sincere Earnest desire to
want to know the truth so who do you ask
the one who created us the one who
created you doesn't make sense
that now you just came out of nothing
and then at the end you go back to
nothing you just go to sleep and it's
all over you turn to dust what was it
all about there's got to be a purpose
you want to know the purpose ask the one
who created you to show you what the
purpose is and visit us here every week
on a Dean show call us start a healthy
dialogue 1800 662 Islam subscribe to the
channel if you haven't already share our
shows and come back every week for
another exciting episode here on the
dean show we'll see you next week peace
be with you please subscribe to the dean
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