greetings of peace my next guest Dr
Professor Norman finlin for those that
don't know who he is let's check out
this clip my late father was in aitz my
late mother was in my di concentration
camp every single member of my family on
my father's
side on my father's side the Jews did
not take arms against the father was in
aitz concentration camp my late mother
was in my D concentration camp every
single member of my family on both sides
was exterminated both of my parents were
on the wara ghetto Uprising and it's
precisely an exactly because of the
lessons my parents taught me and my two
siblings that I will not be silent when
Israel commits its crimes against the
Palestinians and I can consider nothing
more
Despicable than to use their suffering
and their
martyrdom to try to justify the torture
the
brutalization the de demolition of homes
that Israel daily commits against the
Palestinians so I refuse any longer to
be intimidated or browbeaten by the
tears if you had any heart in you you
would be crying for the Palestinians not
for what SE
are now Dr Professor Norman finlin in
the year 2020 was named the fifth most
influential political scientist in the
world he is the author of many books
that have been translated into 60
foreign editions he's devoted 40 Years
of his life to help people understand
the facts as to what's really going on
in Palestine through the lessons that he
learned from his own mother and father
who as Jews themselves were in
concentration camps now I'm going to go
through five Clips God willing and if
he's up for it we'll throw in a couple
bonus Clips on some of the main key
actors who are out there and people who
would probably be very very terrified
and scared to debate someone like Norman
finlin so let's hear what they have to
say get response to it to save time
we're going to get right into the first
clip from The Joe Rogan podcast here one
of his guests and then we'll bring on
our esteemed Professor Norman finlin
what do you think I'm Israel You're the
Palestinians in Gaza if everyone
everyone of the people in Gaza laid down
the arms and stopped attacking what
would I Israel do to you it's a good
question nothing they've tried it five
different times they literally like stop
they Israel has never not one time in
history initiated any conflict every
single one of those things that you're
pointing to is a retaliatory attack by a
terrorist organization but if that if
those if that was switched where I
Israel you Hamas in Gaza I take all of
my arms and all of my protection and I
laid them down what would what would
Hamas do they would kill every single
one of them that's what they do that's
that's what they're sworn to do that's
that's their motto and the the the
origin of their existence all the way
back to the Grand muy in to Hitler to
ask how do we solve the Jewish Problem
Like you want to follow from the Muslim
brother Hamas to the to the Muslim
Brotherhood all the way back to the gr
Muti to muad and you see the origins of
like one thing which is how do I solve
the Jewish problem is to eradicate and
kill them that is what Hamas came from
not the Palestinians not those poor
people stuck in Gaza but in that problem
if all of Hamas just went away we would
have peace if they laid down their arms
and they stopped murdering innocent
civilians and raping
women and killing babies you'd have
peace if the other side laid down their
arms they would all be murdered this is
Professor Dr Norman finlin on The Dean
show how are you sir I'm fine thank you
for having me on your
show have you ever been on a do Joe
Rogan podcast I've never been on this I
think Joe Rogan when he watches this
we're gonna go ahead and hopefully he'll
have you on because he's one of the
biggest podcasts out there and it'll be
a shame if he doesn't have someone like
yourself on so hopefully you get
invitation from him soon God willing so
what do you think Dr M how you been
how's everything I know you're a little
tired you've been going through a lot of
the same things over and over I watched
your debate uh recently I just have one
question before you get into this the
guy from New York it was inperson debate
and was he wearing what was on his shirt
was he wearing a Theodore Herzel t-shirt
was a portrait of the heru the found
okay the the person who's usually named
uh described as the founder of modern
Zionism yes all right so did you get a
chance to listen to this clip yes I
listen to it h how how would you respond
to this it's hard to respond to
statements like that because they're so
DED so divorced from
reality that one doesn't really know
where to begin he starts with Hamas goes
back to the Muti Jerusalem Muslim
Brotherhood and it's just it's just
gibberish so let's just look at the
basic
facts Hamas participated in Democratic
elections in
2006 those elections were effectively
imposed by the US government for your
younger viewers whose memories don't go
back to 2006
that's when George Bush Jr was president
and he was engaged in what was called at
the time democracy promotion and one of
his Showcases of democracy promotion was
the call for Palestinian elections in
the occupied Palestinian
territories Hamas reversed
itself because earlier it wouldn't
participate in what it considered
illegitimate elections it desri decided
to
participate and surprise to itself it
won the
elections because the governing
Authority in the Palestinian occupied
territories the Palestinian Authority
it's called was then and today until
today remains very
corrupt so they were voted out of office
to Palestinian Authority and Hamas who
voted into
office uh what happened well the
elections according to Jimmy Carter
former US president were completely
honest and
fair and immediately as these completely
honest and fair
elections resulted in the Hamas
Victory Israel followed by the E EU and
the US imposed these devastating
economic sanctions on Gaza which ground
its economy to a
Hal that's where so to speak All the
Troubles
begin and in the past 20
years Israel has
controlled who goes in who goes out of
Gaza it controls what goes in what goes
out out of
Gaza about half the population over the
past 20 years has suffered from what the
international humanitarian organizations
call extreme food
insecurity about half the population of
Gaza is
unemployed among youth it's about
60% it has the highest population
highest unemployment rate of any area in
the
world half the population of Gaza
comprises
children so when you hear about Gaza you
have to bear in mind of those 2.3
million people living in Gaza half are
children 70% are refugees from the first
Arab Israeli War and the descendants of
refugees
so for the young people who broke
through the gates of Gaza on October
7th most of them probably almost all of
them had been born into that situation I
just
described now if you take all the
separate facts about Gaza and you put
them together I didn't mention that Gaza
is among the most densely populated
places is on God's
Earth I didn't mention the Gaz is only
25 miles long it's shorter than the
marathon and about five miles
wide if you take all these facts
together the former
British prime minister conservative
British Prime Minister David Cameron he
described Gaza as an open a
prison a senior of offici official in
the Israeli government he was a senior
official uh in 2004 and he continues to
be a very influential figure in Israeli
life in Israeli
intelligence and Military Life his name
is Gora g i o r a island EI i l a n d
Gora Island already in 2004 before the
blockade before the blockade
he described gaza's quote a huge
concentration
camp so those folks who burst through
the gates of Gaza on October
7th nearly all of them had been born
into that huge concentration camp or
open air
prison so all of
this stuff that this guy talks about if
the people put down their arms Hamas
would kill them it's just a flaming
imbecile and it would be kind of funny
to tell you the truth were it not for
the fact that apart from what I just
described in
Gaza I left out that periodically every
few years usually on the order of two
years
uh every few years Israel goes into Gaza
to what it calls Mo the lawn it's going
to mow the
lawn so what is this lawn I said there
are 2,000 2 million 300,000 people
living in
Gaza of whom
1,100,000
Blades of grass on this lawn
1,100
50,000 bra Blades of grass they're
children so when you hear Mo the lawn
you have to bear in mind that it's the
heads of children that are being
mowed and I'm not going to go through
the statistics now there was 2008 to9
operation cast
Leed hundreds of kids were
killed
2012 operation pillar of
Defense
2014 operation protective Le Edge 550
kids were
killed in the current round since
October
7th more children have been
killed more children were killed in
three
weeks than every other War Zone in the
world
combined be it the year
20120
2021
2022 if you take each of those years and
add up every child killed in every war
zone in the
world it would still not equal the
number of children who have been killed
in Gaza in the past 3 weeks the number
is about
4500 now that number is going to sewer
now because among other things Israel is
systematically targeting the medical
infrastructure in Gaza it's attacked
several hospitals already and right now
it's beginning so to speak the final
solution to Gaza because it's attacking
alifa Hospital
which is the biggest Hospital in Gaza
it's as if in the United States you
would attack the Mayo Clinic or SLO
karing hospital or John's Hopkins it's
the major hospital and right now as we
speak we have begun The Assault on alifa
hospital now they claim that hamas's
command and control center is underneath
Al for hospital as a matter of fact they
say that every time they launch one of
their
high-tech uh massacres in Gaza they said
that in 2008 I talk about it in the book
I wrote in the
subject and let's say anybody has
any uh any doubts on this subject it's
very easy way to resolve the question
there are thousands of people in gosip
excuse me there are thousands of people
in alifa
hospital
thousands reporters can go
in and just check whether Israel says we
have detailed evidence that there is a
bunker in Gaza excuse me a bunker in
alifa where there's the Hamas command
and Control Center and they send out
pictures of it images of it you could
just go down and check it's not
difficult but of course they're never
going to allow and
ctions because right now the main goal
of Israel is very
simple it's using October 7 as the
pretext for the final solution of the
Gaza question and the final solution of
the Gaza question has I would say two
parts one part is the utter disin the
pulverization of all of Gaza in society
to reduce all of Gaza physically to
Rubble it's so far
destroyed about destroyed or damaged 45%
of all the civilian dwellings in
Gaza so about half the population will
have nobody nowhere to go back to in
fact they literally will not know where
to go back to in the most literal sense
because the whole area is going to be
reduced to something between a garbage
dump and the parking lot it'll just be
flat so as you look for your home you're
going to be looking into a horizon and
you won't have a clue even where you
lived you will know
wow that that goes into that goes into
the next clip that I want to show you it
discusses peace and it pushes out there
this concept that they keep rejecting
piece so I'm going to play two clips
back to back because it seemed like
these talking points are put out there
by the same individuals often I'll have
you address that you're the one who made
up Palestinians the the Palestinians
were offered a state in 1936 in the
appeal commission they rejected it they
were offered a state in 1947 the UN
partition plan they rejected it they
were offered to state in 1967 after
Israel conquered judan Samaran and the
West Bank they rejected it they were
offered to state in 2000 yasar a Barack
they rejected it they were offered a
state with awood om 2008 they rejected
it they have the Israel unilateral Aly
withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and they did
not create a state claim is that the
Arabs did not reject peace and then in
your own disquisition you admitted that
the Arabs rejected the peel commission
plan which was a separation between the
Jews and the Arabs which gave an
extraordinary amount of land to the
Arabs the Arabs then rejected the peace
partition plan proposed by the United
Nations in 1947 they then proceeded to
reject the Oslo Accords in '93 after
that they rejected the Y River Accords
in 98 they rejected AUD barack's very
generous offer in 2000 I think they're
kind of the same talking points of you
is this anything new that you've heard
are you familiar with both of these uh
figures here Ben Shapiro and the um the
another follower of the um theor Herzel
familiar with
him um
impossible to
disentangle all the nonsense that's
being said there so I'll limit myself to
some very basic facts which the
record
unimpeachably unimpeachably
demonstrates since beginning in the
early 1970s long long
long before Hamas even
existed the Palestinian
leadership uh in the PLO it was called
the Palestine Liberation
Organization led by this fellow name
yaser
Arafat the Palestinians were on record
as supporting a two-state settlement
based on the June 1967 border what has
come to be called the international
consensus two states under June 1967
border and for the past 20 or so years
every year in the United Nations General
Assembly there is a resolution passed or
resolution put forth called peaceful
settlement of the Palestine
question and the terms of the settlement
are very
straightforward number one that Israel
has to withdraw from the territories it
occupied in June
1967 namely the West Bank including East
Jerusalem and
Gaza number two the settlements Israel
has built in the occupied Palestinian
Terr territories now numbering about
700,000 more Jewish settlers are illegal
under international law and those
settlements have to be
dismantled number
three there has to be what's called a
just resolution of the refugee question
based on the right of
return
and
uh number four the Palestinians should
be able to exercise the right of
self-determination in the territories
from which Israel
withdraws those are the terms of
international law and those are the
terms embedded in that annual resolution
peaceful settlement of the Palestine
question every year the whole
world except the United States Israel
and some South Pacific
atoles Islands
uh
tuvalu
Naru uh
Tonga aside from those Marshall Islands
aside from them the whole world votes in
one side Israel votes Israel and the
United States vote on the other side
that's the record the whole world has
been wanting to try to resolve this
problem on the basis of international
law and the basic
principles as applied of international
law as applied to the Israel Palestine
conflict and Israel and the US have
rejected
it there are so
many silly stupid qu uh
comments by those folks because they
don't know what they're talking about
they just get Israel talking points and
they have no clue what they're talking
about um
so that to me is the essence of if you
have any specific questions about
specific claims that made no no we can
go to the next next clip then from here
we often hear this often you've I've
heard you also answer this but for many
of our audience who haven't this is
another key point that they always bring
out to
justify the ethnic cleansing the
genocide that's happening right now
what's happening Israel is basically
saying get the hell out of Gaza we are
coming full force for Hamas we do not
want to kill civilians please leave now
what is Hamas saying saying stay we need
you we need you to stay here why because
Hamas uses its citizens to protect Hamas
whereas Israel uses the IDF to protect
its citizens let me say that again Hamas
uses its citizens to protect Hamas as
human Shields whereas the IDF will use
uh will protect its citizens so if you
if if um if Israel if Hamas put down all
their guns all their weapons there would
be peace if Israel put down all their
guns and all their weapons they would
all be dead the moral equivalency is not
even close so human Shields it's often
repeated you've probably got sick of
answering the question but this is
something that's used to justify the
attack on civilians
human shield the human shielding isn't a
precisely defined term in international
law uh but it generally ref refers to
the
conscription the forceable conscription
of
civilians uh in order to uh
protect
either uh combatants or
military
sites that's more or less as I said it's
not a uh a legal
term uh the
evidence it has not been legally defined
but that's generally how people use the
term the forcible conscription of
civilians to either
Shield combatants or to Shield military
sites now I've read the entire
record hum uh human rights record on the
Israel Palestine conflict since I would
say uh probably since yeah since around
2000 I've read before 2000 but
exhaustively beginning 2000 no actually
I would say even earlier probably the
first in so that would be
1988 uh there's been no
uh record of of
Hamas using I I have to be careful about
these things because we're covering a
long period Hamas doesn't even emerge
until the late
1980s so let's just go to 2000 the first
major
operation uh Israel's operations its
high-tech massacres uh occurs in
operation defensive shield in 2002 when
it went into
Janine uh when Israel went into Janine
the city of Janine
so you look at that whole period let's
just take one example which I which has
been the most exhaustively documented
and that's the operation castled in
20089 uh Amnesty International did the
most exhaustive study of what happened
during what amnesty called the 22 days
of death and destruction namely the
Israeli what Israel calls the operation
cast LED and it found no
evidence that Hamas engaged in human
shielding now there are two further
points I have to make Point number one
there is a
distinction in international law between
what's
called
um human shielding which as I said is
not a legally defined term and what's
take what's called taking all feasible
precautions taking all feasible
precautions in the course of combat not
to endanger civilians now that does have
a legal
standard um and a legal
definition you in the course of combat
you're required by international law to
take all feasible precautions to avoid
civilian
casualties and there have been some
cases as would inevitably be the case
when you're dealing with the most
densely populated place on God's Earth
there are going to be some places where
Hamas is going to be firing a rocket or
a projectile from a civilian area that's
just unavoidable
given the nature of
Gaza so there has been some
claims some claims not a lot but some
and we want to stay faithful to the
factual record that Hamas hasn't taken
all feasible
precautions to wage combat away from
civilians but there's a second side to
the story which all the human rights
organizations document yes there has
been a lot of human shielding there has
been a lot of human shielding going on
in Gaza but you know who's conducting
the human shielding it's
Israel Israel takes civilians and fires
from behind them Israel isra w wow so
this is this is documented by all the
human rights organizations
controversial Israel takes
civilians when it takes over an
apartment building and places the
civilians in front of the windows and
then fires from behind the
civilians Israel takes civilians and
forces them to sit be sit beside
tanks there has been human shielding and
it's been
widely and repeatedly documented
yes Israel has carried out the human
shielding when you go to Israel 21% of
the population is Arab and out of that
Arab I think 12% are Muslim they have
political parties they vote they have
freedom of speech they're prosperous
I've been to many of their villages in
Northern Israel and compare it to
anywhere else on Jordan or Egypt Syria
Iraq there's nothing like it no Arab
citizen anywhere in the Middle East has
the the the freedom to express himself
and to vote and to to worship as he
feels as they do in Israel your
response well in the past few
years there have been several human
rights organization
reports on the um situation the legal
status of Arabs
Palestinians in the area from the
Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River
there was one put out
by bet selum the main Israeli human
rights
organization monitoring the West Bank
East Jerusalem and Gaza there was a
report put out by Amnesty
International there was a report put out
by Human Rights
Watch the first point to make is there
isn't an occupation anymore
the occupation under international law
what distinguishes an occupation from an
annexation or an illegal annexation is
one thing it's very simple what
distinguishes an occupation from
annexation is an occupation is temp
temporary well Israel occupied the West
Bank in
Gaza uh in
1967
we're talking now about more than a half
century it's not temporary
anymore it's an
annexation so the first point we have to
keep in mind is there is one state one
state from the Mediterranean to the
Jordan that is the state of
Israel and as velum put it there is one
state and that state is anchored in the
principle of Jewish
Supremacy
now there are unequal levels of Jewish
Supremacy in the case of the West Bank
in Gaza West Bank including East
Jerusalem and Gaza in the case of the
West Bank East Jerusalem and including
East Jerusalem and Gaza they have no
right
rights they have no right to
vote they have no rights whatsoever
they're basically a heot a slave
population is he lying does he know this
because he then we'll go on he says I
said there are unequal rights you have
to remember even in the United States
before the Civil War there were blacks
who were free it wasn't everybody every
black person was a slave
but nobody would make the ridiculous
claim that blacks enjoyed equal the free
blacks enjoyed equal rights to rights in
the preil war South so it is true that
in the portion and we have to bear in
mind it's just a portion in the
portion of that Israeli state that
extends from the West B from the
Mediterranean to the Jordan there's a
portion namely the
Palestinian Arabs in Israel who enjoy
they have the right to vote that's
correct they have representatives in the
knesset that's correct my last
recollection it could be wrong at this
point but they had one Supreme Court
Justice that's
correct uh but there were also second
class citizens nobody disputes that
that's just a silly thing to say so what
what what one can say is that there is
one
state half the population of that one
state or nearly half of the population
of that one state nearly half it would
be about four and a half
million yeah nearly half nearly half the
population has no rights at
all and haven't had any rights since
1967 and then the other portion of the
Arab uh
of the Arab population namely the
portion within the state of Israel that
is not the West Bank not East Jerusalem
not Gaza but within Israel itself they
enjoy some rights but they're still by
all reckonings they're still second
class citizens in a thousand different
ways it would be very difficult now to
go through all the laws on the Israeli
books which relegate the Arabs of Israel
to a second class status you could say
well no it wouldn't be exactly right uh
I I can't find the exact analogy but
that's roughly the picture so we
shouldn't forget that when we're talking
about Israel at this point there's only
one
state the areas the West Bank East
Jerusalem Gaza they have been
effectively and illegally annexed to the
state of Israel they are illegally
annexed territories but part of
Israel is this one state you're talking
about is this Undisputed is this a fact
that this is an apar say that two of the
human rights rep reports are refer to
one by uh Amnesty International the
other by bet selum described the whole
of Israel as an aparte State Human
Rights Watch describ the West Bank
including East Jerusalem and Gaza as an
apar like state but they refer to the
state of Israel itself as the Arabs
having second class citizenship but not
a not equal to apartheid
and just a couple more questions before
we conclude I've heard you say and this
is I want this to really sink into
people's minds and if their hearts
haven't been darkened you know to have
some kind of feeling you know otherwise
they got to go see a cardiologist and
maybe the cardiologist not g even help
when you mentioned more children have
been killed in Gaza in the last three
weeks than all I was it was at at three
weeks already at three weeks already
there was more children killed than all
the war zones in the world combined
either in the year 2020 2021 or
2022 wow and you mentioned this uh a
week ago so that was at three weeks
we're into four weeks now it's up to
4500 now there GNA we have to be clear
because now there's going to be Mass
death uh there's going to be there has
already been been Mass death now there's
going to be Mega Death because the whole
medical system has collapsed they're
systematically targeting every hospital
in Gaza now so everyone in an incubator
is going to die it's it's U it's the end
of Palestine and everybody from uh Joe
Biden to Bernie Sanders everybody who
opposes a ceasefire now has oceans of
Blood on the hands they have ocean they
are complicitous in complicit in
genocide why do you think I mean and
this can go into my final question here
with the term never forget does that
include Palestinians the lessons that
you learned what made you now come to
where you where you are where you put
your career you put put everything
respect I don't even want to talk about
myself you know there's a that's fine a
complete catastrophe unfolding it's the
end you know it's their final solution
when you unabashedly
unashamedly boldly flagrantly and
blatantly Target the hospital system of
a country then you are in neon lights
inleague lights telling the world the
goal now is the complete
Annihilation and pver ization of a
people that's your go okay thank Youk
thank you Dr fingles thank you very much
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